issue1a

EMUSIC-L Digest                                    Volume 16, Number 1a

   360 System's Audio Patch Bay (2 messages)
   Aegis Sonix II
   Alesis
   Bass Synths (5 messages)
   CMJ (4 messages)
   D-110
   D-70 vs VFX ? (5 messages)
   D110 Factory settings (3 messages)
   DAC/ADC Engines & App Notes (3 messages)
   DataDisk
   Drum triggers (6 messages)
   Ensoniq SQ-1 (3 messages)
   Getting under way... (6 messages)
   Kawai K-4 and user philosophy (7 messages)
   Magnetic Filings (9 messages)
   Man-Machine Interface Archive (6 messages)
   Kurzweil 250 (2 messages)

Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon .
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University of North Carolina.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 7 May 90 10:48:00 EST
From:         MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET
Subject:      360 System's Audio Patch Bay

I have been drooling over the possibilities presented by 360 System's
Audio Patch Bay, a MIDI controllable patch bay that lets you connect any
16 inputs to any 16 outputs, but haven't had the necessary funds.

Our local music mall (which usually considers list price to be "big
discount" currently has one unit with a "Regularly $800 Now Only $400
New! Full Warranty" sticker.  This is not typical behavior on the part
of this store.  Does anyone know of possible explanations such as
1) the model II is coming out next month, 2) 360 System is going Chapter
11 next month, 3) the thing just does not work, etc?

Anyone have any experience with one of these units?

John McIntyre
Physics - Astronomy Dept
Michigan State University

------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 7 May 90 15:56:00 EDT
From:         METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: 360 System's Audio Patch Bay

I probably shouldn't spread ill rumors, but reviews of the beastie say
that its audio signal quality is not up to acceptable standards... unlike
a good passive patchbay, it degrades the signals passing through it to
some extent. See the KEYBOARD review of a few months ago for details.

metlay

------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 7 May 90 20:21:58 BST
From:         Simes reporting from Darkest Kent 
Subject:      Aegis Sonix II

Do any of you Amiga owners out there know where I can get hold
of some decent sounds for the Sonix package.  I have the ones
that came with it, but they get a little boring after a while
and I don't have a modem for my Amiga so I can't find out
about getting patches by logging on to Bulletin Boards.  Can
any of you experts out there help me.

	Also does anyone know if it is true that Aegis
went bankrupt a while back, like last year or something?

	Another little query, can anyone tell me if it is
possible to pass samples between ProSound Gold Designer and
Aegis Sonix and if so how, because my copy of Sonix doesn't
want to read the samples from ProSounds of the disc...

	Thanks in advance...toodle pip

		Simon

------------------------------

Date:         Sat, 5 May 90 11:52:48 EDT
From:         "Rob Klamka (RSK4) Taylor A112" 
Subject:      Alesis

I've been using the Hr-16 and MMT-8 for about a year now, and I'm
pretty satisfied with one slight problem...where to store compositions.
Using a tape recorder was fun in 1978 with those state-of-the-art PET
computers, but this IS the 90's, and I seriously need to leave the
stone age behind.  I've heard the Datadisk (Alesis) is really good, but
the "Brother" drive will do just as well for about half the price.  Are
there any alternatives (or opinions about either of the above?) All I
really need is to save songs from my 2 Alesis Machines, and also to
save voices directly from keyboard (how compatable is the Datadisk for
non-Alesis machines??)
               Rob (yes I'm a beginner so come wipe my nose, you
professionals you.)

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 1 May 90 09:13:58 BST
From:         "Benjamin M. J. Ellis :->" 
Subject:      Bass Synths


Thanks Metlay,
              Could you give me anymore details on the GR-77B
(like how much would I expect to pay for a second hand one???)
and does anyone else know of any fret wired basses (ie delay-
less, wired like the synthaxe).
              On a wider note, can any one tell me anything about
bass synthesizers in general, I'm on an information gathering
mission again, sorry!

                 Thanks,
                        Benjamin.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Ellis - U.K.C., Canterbury, Kent, England. ----------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 1 May 90 17:39:00 EDT
From:         METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Bass Synths


The only fretwired bass synth I've ever even heard rumors of is the
Zeta Mirror 4, a bass version of their Mirror 6 guitar. The Zetas are,
in my opinion, the best concept possible in the realm of guitarsynth
design: REAL guitars, fretwired. They sound and play like (excellent)
electric guitars, yet track flawlessly and as rapidly as an ordinary
synth keyboard does. Problem: they cost a fortune ($2000-plus).

You should be able to find a used GR-77B with a G-77 bass (or is it B-77?
Goddamned MI alphabet soup!) for around $1200-$1400, if you can find one
at all. They're rare, and didn't catch on very well. The synth engine is
great, though; a JX-8P in a different case. Bartolini and Zeta market
special pickups for P/V converters. Beyond this, I know of no bass synths
on the market.

metlay

PS. You could always go looking for an old Oncor Poly Touch (yeah, right).

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 2 May 90 11:58:38 BST
From:         "Benjamin M. J. Ellis :->" 
Subject:      Bass Synths Again


Sorry, my thirst for information is still growing faster than I
can feed it!
     Metlay, first off, can you tell me a bit more about the Bartolini and
Zeta P/V converters, and also  WHAT  is an "Oncor Poly Touch"?!?!?!

     What I want to do is use my bass sound, but with a synth sound
heavily layerer on top, so I guess the delay isn't that much of a
problem, realy?!.   Ermm.... any more ideas anyone???

                          Benjamin,
                          The Bass from England.

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 2 May 90 18:22:00 EDT
From:         METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Bass Synths Again

Argh, the trivia expert gets busted again. The Zeta and BArtolini
are PICKUPS for P/V converters, not P/Vs themselves. They're sets
of four pickups in a line, one for each string, that give clean
signals for electronic interpretation. You'd have to install them
on your bass, then find a converter.

The Oncor PolyTouch was not a bass at all; it was a synthesizer made
to look like a bass. It had metal bars in place of the strings, which
one fretted and played "just like the real thing." A couple of celebrities
had them; they were very rare, buggy as hell, and way, WAY too costly.
Don't even think about trying to find one, esp. if you want to mix
bass and synth sounds. Your only options are the Roland GR33B and GR77B
and (IF it exists) the Zeta Mirror 4; the 33B is available cheap but
has no MIDI capability.

metlay

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 2 May 90 09:17:00 EST
From:         MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET
Subject:      re: bass synths

Benjamin Ellis asked about bass synths in general.  I personally use Arp
Odysseys and an EML sequencer.  I am pleased with the Odysseys and would
like longer envelopes on the EML.  I have a pair of Roland B-303 BassLines
that I use as control voltage sequencers; i.e. they control the pitch of
other units but their audio outputs are not used, too thin for my taste.
(Of course, it is only to be expected that they sound thinner than an Odyssey.)
The Rolands are a pain to program: pitch and rhythm are entered separately,
which effectively prohibits real time programing, and there is minimal visual
feedback as to what you have told the unit to do.  (Did I push that button
hard enough to register?)  And the manual might as well have been written by
somebody at Microsoft-in-the-head.  But they are cheap.

John McIntyre
Physics - Astronomy Dept
Michigan State University

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 4 May 90 14:56:35 EDT
From:         Patrick Robinson 
Subject:      CMJ

Please post the address/phone of Computer Music Journal if you run
across it... I've never seen this rag around Here (Blacksburg, VA)
either.
-Patrick

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 4 May 90 13:38:41 -0700
From:         PMY@VIRGINIA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: CMJ

MIT Press Journals
55 Hayward St.
Cambridge, MA 02142

------------------------------

Date:         Sat, 5 May 90 14:38:37 MEZ
From:         Christian Teuscher 
Subject:      Re: CMJ

I hope this one is still valid: CMJ, 55 Hayward St, Cambridge, MA 02142
(617) 253-2866
 chief editor is stephen pope now, you can reach him on BitNet stp @ parcplace.
com

 --Christian T.

------------------------------

Date:         Sat, 5 May 90 12:10:12 EDT
From:         Cecilia Tan 
Subject:      Re: CMJ

The Computer Music Journal is published by MIT Press in Cambridge, but
  I also have the address for the CMJ offices.

                    Computer Music Journal
                    PO BOX 60632
                    Palo Alto, CA  94306

        If you wnt to buy it, I imagine you contact MIT Press.
          If you have other questions, I guess the address above.

     They have e-mail, too, but I'm not sure what it is.  I do have it
        somewhere, though.
                          -c

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 3 May 90 10:29:46 BST
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      D-110

>Is there a way to reset a Roland D110 back to its factory settings?  If so,
>will this procedure also restore the Internal bank (RAM) Tones to their Factory
>state?

I believe the answer is Yes to both questions, but I'm damned if I can
remember the alt-cokebottle key combination for it. If you have a Mac I
can give you all the factory patches & a librarian to load them.

>Also, what's the scoop on the ROM revisions?  I have v1.08, but my Ed/Lib says
>that I should be using v1.10 or better.  Is there anything that am I missing
>out on?

Just bug fixes, I think. I have 1.10, and there are still bugs in the
voice allocation routines. Current version is 1.15 or so, I think.

		Nick.

------------------------------

Date:         Sun, 6 May 90 13:50:33 BST
From:         "Patrick C.K.Tsang" 
Subject:      D-70 ... last time, really :->

Kurt,

	I remembered you asked me this one, I just saved it to a
	file because there were many messages at the time, and I
	couldn't find a good enough argument to say that the D-70
	is not just LA. Now I can.

>In any case, you seem to bill the D-70 as a mega sample-playback
>machine and compare it to the M1.  I understood from the press
>releases that it was an L/A synth with sample playback (and presumably
>the ability to use samples as wave sources in the L/A synthesis.)  Is
>this true, did I misunderstand this, or do I just don't know enough
>about L/A synthesis to realize that the question is irrelevant?

	As far as I understand it, the D-70 is different from the
	D-50 L/A synthesis in that it is no longer using just an
	attack transient coupled to a synth tail, but it is using
	complete samples. For example when I looked at an E.Piano
	patch it was a mixture of two Rhodes samples, one Grand
	Piano sample, and one Jupitar string sample. Whether or
	not the Jupitar string could be done using a synthesiser
	section is irrelevant, because the result is the same ---
	digital synthesis of a waveform or playback of a waveform
	in memory --- what matters is what else you can do to the
	digital output. In the case of the D-70, quite a lot due
	to it's excellent digital filter section.

>Could you recommend one?

	I would because I am going to buy one after this summer,
	on the assumption that I get the job demonstrating the
	SynClavier in the Far East.

>Kurt Geisel

							Patrick.

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 1 May 90 11:22:05 BST
From:         "Patrick C.K.Tsang" 
Subject:      D-70 vs VFX ?

>One thing Roland seem to have got the hang of now: digital filtering.
>The filtering on the D-70 seems to be *excellent*, with resonant
>filter sweeps which sounded like they were coming out of a top-notch
>analogue machine.  Bear in mind also that the D-70 can filter (with
>resonance) the PCM samples as well. This was rather interesting...

	How would you compare the D-70 and the VFX ?
	Is the VFX as clean ? Versatility, etc ?

>	Nick.

							Patrick.

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 2 May 90 09:59:24 BST
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      D-70 vs VFX ?

>	How would you compare the D-70 and the VFX ?

I don't think such comparisons make a great deal of sense, but I'll have
a go anyway. Also: I know the VFX quite well, but have only played with
a D-70 for a few minutes.

VFX: very nice and versatile sound architecture, good user interface,
good performance features, fairly good as a MIDI controller (rather
vague on this point), poly aftertouch, wavetables, microtuning, but
wimpy filtering.

D-70: more keys, very nice resonant filtering (perhaps as good as
analogue units, I don't know), and you're filtering the PCM samples as
well, unlike the D-50. It has a set of rhythm sounds (at least, I
found some), perhaps like the D-110. But I don't know about the
versatility of the architecture.  Roland aren't too good at this in
general (I know, I have four of their synths). No wavetables, I don't
think. No microtuning. As a MIDI master keyboard, it's *probably*
quite good at a guess, even better if the tone pallet sliders can
double as general MIDI sliders. Oh, the D-70 accepts the U-series PCM
data cards, I think.

The D-70 has more (Roland) character in its sound; you may or may not
like this. I find the VFX is rather grey and characterless, but more
interesting and versatile (if that makes sense), which makes it better
suited to what I need. (er.. "want".)

The D-70 doesn't interest me as an additional machine, since I have
enough Roland already and want to get into something more interesting
and versatile programming-wise. It might interest me one day as a D-50
replacement, if I can port my existing patches.

The VFX does interest me (despite the not-so-interesting filters) since
it's well designed and versatile; just badly executed and buggy.

I have scouts out trying to spot a WaveStation.

 		Nick.

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 2 May 90 09:57:00 EDT
From:         "b.klassen" 
Subject:      RE: D-70 vs VFX ?

>D-70: more keys, very nice resonant filtering (perhaps as good as
>analogue units, I don't know), and you're filtering the PCM samples as
>well, unlike the D-50. It has a set of rhythm sounds (at least, I
>found some), perhaps like the D-110. But I don't know about the
>versatility of the architecture.  Roland aren't too good at this in
>general (I know, I have four of their synths). No wavetables, I don't
>think. No microtuning. As a MIDI master keyboard, it's *probably*
>quite good at a guess, even better if the tone pallet sliders can
>double as general MIDI sliders. Oh, the D-70 accepts the U-series PCM
>data cards, I think.

I'm considering the D-70 as a replacement for one flakey Xk contoller board and
my D-50.  Nick mentioned he only had a few minutes with the unit, so I'll ask
the rest of you if you have any more to add regarding the 70's abilities as a
MIDI controller.  As for the filtering, I was quite impressed ... especially
when it comes to filtering the PCM stuff (I don't know about you Nick, but
since I've started getting into my D-50 I've found the lack of filtering on the
PCM side of things to be most annoying).  I was also impressed by the dynamics
of the 70 ... it was one of the most responsive boards I've played.

>and versatile programming-wise. It might interest me one day as a D-50
>replacement, if I can port my existing patches.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could simply plug in a D-50 RAM card and play away
(one can always dream) ...  You could do that with DX7 cartridges (with an
adapter) and the DX7II.  If my local dealer gives me a reasonable trade for my
Xk & D-50, maybe I'll find out.  (Hey Metlay, if you're still reading, can you
believe this guys going to take my Xk?)

>I have scouts out trying to spot a WaveStation.

I'm still waiting to spot a uWave.  Anyone on this side of the pond seen/heard
one?  I read that they had set up American distribution ... whether this
includes Canada is another thing.

>               Nick.

brian

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 2 May 90 18:26:00 EDT
From:         METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: D-70 vs VFX ?

No, I don't believe it, Brian. Will he take another one? Will anyone on
this LIST take it? One Oberheim Xk, currently in working order. Make me
an offer; I'm using it as a stand anchor with release velocity right now.
WARNING: It will probably crash when you turn it on for the first time.
And the second, and the third.... but when it finally does work, you'll
find yourself loving it and coming to depend on it (like I do/did) until
it crashes during an important session and makes you shriek with rage.

Takers?

metlay

------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 7 May 90 11:07:13 EDT
From:         Dean Swan 
Subject:      Re:  D110 Factory settings

To reset the D-110 to factory state, including all the Internal Tones, press
 and  and hold them in, then turn on the power.  Be
warned though that you should save anything you want to keep first, because
this restores the RAM to "out of the box" state.

-Dean Swan
dean@sun.soe.clarkson.edu

------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 7 May 90 11:07:13 EDT
From:         Dean Swan 
Subject:      Re:  D110 Factory settings

To reset the D-110 to factory state, including all the Internal Tones, press
 and  and hold them in, then turn on the power.  Be
warned though that you should save anything you want to keep first, because
this restores the RAM to "out of the box" state.

-Dean Swan
dean@sun.soe.clarkson.edu

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 3 May 90 00:07:00 EST
From:         "M. J. Kociscin,
Subject:      D110 Factory settings

Nick (and all you other D110 owners):

Is there a way to reset a Roland D110 back to its factory settings?  If so,
will this procedure also restore the Internal bank (RAM) Tones to their Factory
state?  I've managed to mangle my internals up a bit, and would like to restore
my unit to its original state.

Also, what's the scoop on the ROM revisions?  I have v1.08, but my Ed/Lib says
that I should be using v1.10 or better.  Is there anything that am I missing
out on?

Thanks!

        Mark

------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 7 May 90 10:20:14 -0400
From:         Brian Adamson 
Subject:      Re:  DAC/ADC Engines & App Notes

   Kurt,

	There is a SONY chip set, the CX20017 dual 16 bit, 44 kHz D/A
and the CX20018 dual 16 bit, 44 kHz A/D.  There is also a filter chip
which goes with this set.  The A/D requires a little wrap around
hardware but they look pretty good.  My info is about 1.5 years old
and I think we got some samples of the chips at the time.

	I've been pursuing some vendors for single chip 'codec' type
A/D,D/A's with at least 16 bits of resolution and 40-odd kHz sample
rate but the best I've been able to find is ~20 kHz sample rate at
14 bits with the TI TLC32040 family.

	You might be able to find out what they are using in these
wonderfully small DAT recorders that are around these days.  Parts
for them may be available in greater quantity and at a lower cost than
in the not so distant past.

				Brian Adamson
				adamson@css.itd.nrl.navy.mil

------------------------------

Date:         Sun, 6 May 90 17:15:14 EDT
From:         "Kurt A. Geisel" 
Subject:      DAC/ADC Engines & App Notes

I have been pondering building my own sampler.  I am wondering if
there are commonly available ADC/DAC chips (preferably 16 bit and
suitable for audio applications) with application notes out there?  I
know a lot of companies rely on custom chips (i.e.  Emu's E-III chip
and Roland's S-chip) but I would think there is a standard chip out
there somewhere that could be hacked into an OK-sampler.

Any help would be appreciated.  If you have already built your own
digital synth (I remember a guy on here a while back working on his
"codebook" system) you might know even more about the feasibility of
this.

- Kurt

------------------------------

Date:         Sun, 6 May 90 23:04:19 MDT
From:         schabtac@SPOT.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Re:  DAC/ADC Engines & App Notes

Kurt (et al): for ADC/DAC chips, get ahold of a Burr-Brown catalog. When I
was looking into a similar project last year, they seemed to have the best
selection of parts for such applications.

(My project was going to be a homebrew signal processor based on the Motorola
56001 DSP chip. Anybody remember the DSPNET project?)

--Adam

------------------------------

Date:         Sun, 6 May 90 12:59:27 BST
From:         "Patrick C.K.Tsang" 
Subject:      DataDisk

>save voices directly from keyboard (how compatable is the Datadisk for
>non-Alesis machines??)

	With most manufacturers the Datadisk actually recognises
	the name of the manufacturer (from the Sys.Ex header) and
	the Datadisk will put this into the patch name for you,
	which shows up on the front panel display automatically.
	After that you might just have to give one or two letters
	or numbers to distinguish between different dumps.

	If the Datadisk doesn't recognise the manufacturer you'll
	have to name it yourself, not a hard task considering you
	can put up with the buttons on the MMT-8 already.

	In my opinion the Datadisk is an excellent piece of gear.

							Patrick.

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 1 May 90 00:53:41 MDT
From:         schabtac@SPOT.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Re:  arrrgghhhh ...... more drum triggers

R8m price (list): $995.

Roland hopes that you'll think the extra card slots and convenience of rack
mounting are equivalent to a sequencer, which the R8m doesn't have. The
problem I see is that the R8's sequencer is really pretty nifty, what with
the "human feel" parameters and so on.

They must be fairly available, since the local Podunk dealer here has one
(and has had it for awhile).

Now, does anyone know anything about the Emu rackmount drum module I've
heard rumors of? Supposedly it's Proteus technology applied to drum/percussion
samples.

--Adam

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 1 May 90 10:13:42 EDT
From:         Andy Silverman 
Subject:      Re:  Drum triggers

I was under the impression that Simmons has gone out of business.  Correct me
if I'm wrong...

Andy

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 1 May 90 17:02:15 BST
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Drum triggers

>I was under the impression that Simmons has gone out of business.  Correct me
>if I'm wrong...

You're right.

		Nick.

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 1 May 90 10:15:24 EDT
From:         Andy Silverman 
Subject:      Re:  arrrgghhhh ...... more drum triggers

OK, the list on the R-8M is $995.  Anyone seen a "street" price?

Andy

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 1 May 90 16:55:00 EDT
From:         "b.klassen" 
Subject:      Re:  arrrgghhhh ...... more drum triggers

>OK, the list on the R-8M is $995.  Anyone seen a "street" price?

I can get one in Canada for around $800 new, if I was so inclined ...

>Andy

brian

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 1 May 90 19:32:42 BST
From:         "Patrick C.K.Tsang" 
Subject:      Re: arrrgghhhh ...... more drum triggers

>I also saw in the Roland magazine an ad and discussion of the R-8M, their new
>rack mount module with the R-8's sounds but intended for use with MIDI pads
>or other devices, sans sequencer.  Anybody have one, know prices on them, etc?

	Yes I have just bought one to go with my Portakit/keyboard setup.
	Prices are incredibly expensive in the UK (about 499 pounds) but
	I telephone ordered mine from Hong Kong for about 300 odd.

	That's about US $500 methinks.

>Andy

								Patrick.

------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 7 May 90 10:58:04 BST
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Ensoniq SQ-1

>            Just curious to see if that new Ensoniq piece (SQ-1 I believe)
>            has been released anywhere yet.

Saw one last month.

>If so, what did you think of it?  Anything like a VFX :)!

It's a cut-down VFX, but with sequencer. (Can't remember if it has a
floppy drive or not).

No aftertouch. 3 (I think) voices per key, rather than 6. No "patch-select"
performance buttons.

		Nick.

------------------------------

Date:         Sun, 6 May 90 17:07:35 CST
From:         Jason Keeler 
Subject:      Ensoniq SQ-1

Hello folks,
            Just curious to see if that new Ensoniq piece (SQ-1 I believe)
            has been released anywhere yet.  If so, what did you think of
            it?  Anything like a VFX :)!

------------------------------

Date:         Sun, 6 May 90 21:29:48 MDT
From:         schabtac@SPOT.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Re:  Ensoniq SQ-1

There's a SQ-1 at the local store here (Boulder, Colorado). I didn't give it
more than a cursory glance, because 1) I was pressed for time, 2) the burning
question of "what synth shall I buy?" was resolved for me in a sudden and
unexpected way recently, 3) I had already compared the SQ-1 to the VFX via
their shiny sheets recently. IMHO, it's worth spending the extra $$$ to get
the VFX because of the additional flexibility of the VFX's architecture, and
greater number of waves/samples in ROM.

--Adam

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 4 May 90 16:58:03 LCL
From:         ERL@SARA.NL
Subject:      Bragging?

Rich writes:

> ... is everyone too busy bragging/complaining
> about the latest gear to bother with a newcomer on a limited budget?

Ummm, yes, sometimes we are. No smiley. Dead serious.

Personally, I think you should repost your questions.
At least to me, since I seem to have missed your questions,
but I think a repost to the list would be worthwhile too.
I was (and still am) a newcomer to electronic music, and I'm
on a limited budget, too. I have asked many questions here. For me,
many members of this list have been very helpful, attentive,
and responsive. They usually are. And most of the time,
they know what they are talking about.

How unlike rec.music.synth!

Cheers,
Edo Roos Lindgreen, SARA, Amsterdam (erl@sara.nl)

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 4 May 90 09:54:00 EST
From:         "Richard S. Holmes" 
Subject:      RE: Getting under way...

2 1/2 weeks ago I sent a message inquiring about how to approach buying a synth
for the first time.  I received zero replies.

Am I writing to the wrong place?  Or is everyone too busy bragging/complaining
about the latest gear to bother with a newcomer on a limited budget?  If so,
I'm pretty disillusioned with Emusic-L.  So who else is there?

If you just didn't see the original message, I can send you (individually)
another copy.

                                                   Rich Holmes

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
|  Richard S. Holmes    |                     |                            |
|  Physics Department   |    (315)443-5973    |  rich@suhep.bitnet         |
|  Syracuse University  |    or      -2701    |  rich@suhep.phy.syr.edu    |
|  Syracuse, NY 13244   |                     |                            |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

DISCLAIMER: I have no opinions.

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 4 May 90 10:09:46 EDT
From:         "Kurt A. Geisel" 
Subject:      Re: Getting under way...

Sorry.  I think what we have here is a "free-rider" situation.  I guess
everyone
gets tired with the beginner questions and waits for someone else to answer.
If you would send me your list of needs again, I'll do my best.

- Kurt

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 4 May 90 10:52:00 EDT
From:         METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Getting under way...

Richard:

Bitch, bitch, bitch. You'd think we REAL synthesists hadn't anything
better to do than to wipe you kids' noses for you. |-> |-> |->

Okay, seriously.... in a way, you're NOT on the right group. EMUSIC-L
has a sharply divided readership; there are a few folks like you,
just getting started and hanging on for dear life, and the rest of us,
who are either long-standing experienced types, cutting-edge academic
synth professors, or both. There are some pretty heavy hitters out here,
and questions like yours, worthwhile though they are, get swept under
the proverbial rug. I have no idea what sort of other replies your complaint
will bring; if I can hazard a guess, most will be polite and/or helpful.
I can only say in my own defense that I'm writing a thesis and getting
married, and that answering novice queries isn't my bag at such times.
But now that you've got my attention, let's see what we can do.

First off, do you have access to rn or vnews on a unix machine that's
hooked up to INTERNET? There's a USEnet newsgroup called rec.music.synth,
which is open to all, and tends to deal much more with low-end and
starting users, and also is more comfortable discussing buying and
selling; we try to avoid such things on EMUSIC-L, as they detract from
serious discussion. Unfortunately that leaves folx like you in the cold;
hence this letter. Ask around about USEnet access; if you can start
reading rec.music.synth, you'll be off to a good start. WARNING! Newsfeed
access is dangerously habitforming, and EATS work time. I find myself
being forced to quit for a month or two at a time, just to get my life
back in order (my next album is five months late to the mastering shop).

In the meantime, let me see what I can do to help you. I've been around, and
I don't work for anyone, so I can be reasonably well-informed and objective.
Answer me a few questions, if you would:

1. What music background do you have?
2. What is your living arrangement? (tiny apt., big house, etc.)
3. What sort of music do you want to make? (rock, jazz, classical, etc)
4. Which areas of electronic music interest you? Do you just regard synths
   as tools to make conventional music, or would you like to experiment
   with creating different sounds?
5. Are you averse to owning used gear? Some people are, but if you know where
   and what to buy (and I do), there are dynamite deals to be had. The turnover
   in the MI business is one model generation per 6 months; last year's synths
   are has-beens, but they're still powerful and sound great.
6. Do you own a computer, and would you want to use it in making music? If so,
   describe your computer system to me.
7. Do you require ancillary gear (effects, a mixer, tape decks etc) or just
   a synth to play on and record, perhaps, on your stereo tape deck?
8. What is your TOTAL dollar budget? (think this one over carefully, and give
   me two numbers; "I will be comfortable spending" and "I can NOT exceed".)

That'll give me something to work with. I am going to be away from my terminal
until Monday, so you have the weekend to think it over. Also, you should go
around to your local dealers and ask to try things. Say you're a novice. DO
NOT BRING CASH OR A CREDIT CARD! Ask a lot of questions, play whatever you
can get your hands on and MAKE A NUISANCE OF YOURSELF. (Within reason, of
course.) Take note of which stores are courteous and helpful without being
pushy or nasty, or worse yet, ignoring you. For every synth you try, note
down ON PAPER the make and model number, the price they want, and your own
impressions of how it SOUNDS. You haven't gotten enough knowledge to compare
specs yet; for now, go with what sounds good to your ears. If you can try
old and used instruments, so much the better. Then share what you've learned
with me, and I'll see if I can help you.

metlay

PS. Phsyicist, eh? What's your field? I'm an experimentalist in Nuclear
    Structure at High Spin here at Pitt, though I normally work at ORNL.

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 4 May 90 08:37:00 -0700
From:         PMY@VIRGINIA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Getting under way...

>2 1/2 weeks ago I sent a message inquiring about how to approach
>buying a synth for the first time.  I received zero replies.

This is probably because the question is entirely too broad.

Answer: do your homework. Read books. Visit music stores.
Get to the point where you can ask specific questions which
are reasonably answerable. As it is, you're basically asking
the mailing list to write you a book! sheesh.

I grow weary of these kinds of questions (and others, like "what's
the best synth in the world that can be had for under $100?")
and I usually ignore them, but the snotty tone of the rest of
the article irked me enough to inspire response.

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 4 May 90 17:13:56 BST
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Getting under way...

>2 1/2 weeks ago I sent a message inquiring about how to approach buying a synth
>for the first time.  I received zero replies.

I seem to remember the original question, saying something like "I want
to buy a synthesiser, whta do you recommend?" No answer to such a
general and not very meaningful question comes to mind.

What do you actually *want*? Saying you want a synthesiser is like saying
you just want to buy a book.

I can't help you on prices, for obvious reasons (see the signature).

>Or is everyone too busy bragging/complaining
>about the latest gear to bother with a newcomer on a limited budget?

Nah, just got work to do sometimes, so I often junk stuff after a quick
read.

		Nick.
--
Nick Rothwell,	Laboratory for Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh.
		nick@lfcs.ed.ac.uk    !mcsun!ukc!lfcs!nick
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
		   Ich weiss jetzt was kein Engel weiss

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 4 May 90 18:27:05 EET
From:         Mikko Laanti 
Subject:      KAWAI K4 and CMS 401-II information needed

Hi E-MUSIC folks,

   I am a newcomer on el-music and I havbought
a KAWAI K4 synth.  Does anyone of You know, if
there exists a common database of synthesizer
patches ? What are the FTP addresses of them.
Also I have bought a CMS 401-II midi card. While
I am quite pleased the hardware I would prefer
to have better documentation of this 2 in/2 out
midi card.  Thank You in advance.

    Mikko Laanti
    TKOP-ML at FINOU.BITNET

------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 7 May 90 01:25:00 EST
From:         "M. J. Kociscin,
Subject:      Re: Kawai K-4

David:

My college finals will be over in about week, and I will then embark on a
strange and wonderful journey: Programming my D110.  What insight do you have
to offer me, and any other novice synth programmer?

Mark
 Rochester (NY) Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 7 May 90 10:53:48 BST
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Kawai K-4

>I'm glad someone else brought this up. I am amazed by the number of people
>(not so much here, but particularly in rec.music.synth) who post a message
>of the generic form "I just bought a , where can
>I get patches?" Doesn't anybody do their own programming any more?

To be fair: a lot of the patches I use on my D-50 are essentially
heavily edited versions of patches I got from others, since there are
tricks to the D-50 which it's hard to pick up otherwise (did you know
the D-50 can do a wonderful AAAH choir sound purely by using sawtooth
waves and clever chorus programming?). My MKS-70 has mostly my own
sounds from scratch, 'cos it's easy to program, though there are
subtleties to getting higher harmonics and metallic tones using the
various kinds of oscillator sync.

But, I don't understand why people buy synths and treat them as preset
boxes, using sounds they beg/borrow/buy from others. There's nothing
better than building a piece of music around a sound that is totally
unique, and nobody else has.

>In a way, this explains why I chose the particular machine I just acquired
>as my main synth.

You went for the Xpander, huh?

I almost bought a VFX this weekend. My resistance is weakening.

		Nick.

------------------------------

Date:         Sat, 5 May 90 17:10:21 CDT
From:         "David M. Stowell (312) 509-9374" 
Subject:      Kawai K-4

This is going to sound terribly haughty...

Is there any particular reason you need FTPs of K-4 patches, as opposed
to programming the thing yourself? I got a K-1 at the beginning of the
year and have had no problem with it, and the K-4 is essentially a K-1
with dynamic filtering on each source wave. I'm going to try to get one
later this year myself!

I guess I can understand using others patches for learning purposes, but
shelling out cash or mainframe time to get them strikes me a little odd.

Just one of my quirks. Ignore me if you like... :)

------------------------------

Date:         Sat, 5 May 90 21:44:19 MDT
From:         schabtac@SPOT.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Re:  Kawai K-4

>Is there any particular reason you need FTPs of K-4 patches, as opposed
>to programming the thing yourself?

I'm glad someone else brought this up. I am amazed by the number of people
(not so much here, but particularly in rec.music.synth) who post a message
of the generic form "I just bought a , where can
I get patches?" Doesn't anybody do their own programming any more? Isn't
anybody interested in creating their own, unique sounds, rather than recycling
someone else's sounds?

Maybe I'm old-fashioned--I learned synthesis when patches were actually
constructed with patch cords, and if you wanted to save a patch, you wrote
down all the settings of all the umpty-seven knobs, switches, and cords on
the front panel.

>I guess I can understand using others patches for learning purposes, but
>shelling out cash or mainframe time to get them strikes me a little odd.

The primary reason I have in others' patches is hearing what other people
have managed to do with the same equipment -- occasionally you hear a patch
and you go "Wow! how did they do that with this machine?"

In a way, this explains why I chose the particular machine I just acquired
as my main synth.

--Adam

------------------------------

Date:         Sun, 6 May 90 16:07:33 CDT
From:         "David M. Stowell (312) 509-9374" 
Subject:      Re: Kawai K-4

You seem to have missed part of my point. Exploring others patches is fine
for instructional purposes is fine, but when everyone starts sounding the
same because they bought their patches from the same place, it begins to
grate on my ears. Actually, what I often do is listen to a Minimoog or
ARP 2600 patch on a record, and attempt to emulate it on my K-1 or Korg.
Gives me a great idea of what my machines will and will not do.

Maybe I just have a knack for programming :) , but in general, it doesn't
take me long to program a good synth. Give me an hour or so for a decent
complex patch. (OK. So I'm bragging...)

If you like, I can give you some general guidelines for programming your
axe, but I don't have any K-4 to send you. Just methodology.

Happy programming!

------------------------------

Date:         Sun, 6 May 90 23:36:34 EET
From:         Mikko Laanti 
Subject:      Re: Kawai K4 patches

My purpose is to see what others have done with Kawai K4
and I am well aware of enormous time it takes to create
good patches.  If someone will not share his or hers
artwork with others, I can understand that, but I do
really appreciate those who will.

Mikko laanti

------------------------------

Date:         Sun, 6 May 90 14:11:00 EST
From:         "M. J. Kociscin,
Subject:      Reposting of message..

This is a repost of a message inadvertently sent to me, rather than the net:

>Subj:  RE: Magnetic Filings II

    Date:         Wed, 2 May 90 20:41:48 EDT
    From: Cecilia Tan 

Hmm. Actually, I'd be interested in Mag Filings I; what's the procedure for
getting a copy?

I think Xmas is a good time for MFII; that should give anyone interested
ample time to put a submission together.
----
 Brad Miller            U. Rochester Comp Sci Dept.
 miller@cs.rochester.edu {...allegra!rochester!miller}

[END OF MESSAGE]
------------------------------------------------------------------
Readers- Please be SURE that you are posting to the net, unless
you specifically want to send the author of the message a personal
note.  Thanks!  Mark  (MJK7911@RITVAX.BITNET)
------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 3 May 90 10:36:55 BST
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Magnetic Filings II

>  So, what do y'all think about waiting until September to begin the
>    next compilation?  And projected release around Christmas?

Absolutely. Contributions should *only* be accepted on the condition
that they're seasonal. (an Xpander cover version of White Christmas,
VFX's doing synthesised sleigh-bells, sampled "ho-ho-ho's" and so on).

I have a 10 minute piece (non-seasonal. I was joking, guys!) going
onto the 1990 USEnet tape this summer, but should be able to knock up
something else (or maybe a different version of the same) later in the
year.  In fact, since we've got a concert slot coming up in September
(for UK Electronica 1990), there will be more material to choose from by
then (I hope).

		Nick.

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 3 May 90 11:32:00 EDT
From:         Brad Miller 
Subject:      Re: Magnetic Filings II

    Date:         Wed, 2 May 90 20:41:48 EDT
    From: Cecilia Tan 

Hmm. Actually, I'd be interested in Mag Filings I; what's the procedure for
getting a copy?

I think Xmas is a good time for MFII; that should give anyone interested
ample time to put a submission together.
----
 Brad Miller		U. Rochester Comp Sci Dept.
 miller@cs.rochester.edu {...allegra!rochester!miller}

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 3 May 90 20:22:07 EDT
From:         Cecilia Tan 
Subject:      Mag Filings

I'm really sorry guys, but I can't take any more requests for Magnetic
  Filings Volume I right now.  I'm about to move, and in September I'll
    move again, and I odn't want to deal with the nightmare of tapes
      getting forwarded all over creation, plus I still have a backlog
        from last time that I have to try to get through REAL SOON NOW.
          Perhaps in the next round I'll make it an option.

Any Samaritans on the list care to make some copies for your friends?

Ah, yes, the ching-wahh-tiddlyping-tiddlyping from the D-50 (NATIVE DANCE)
  you can hear it on the Post-Modern MTV drop-ins sometimes...

And guess what?  I ordered the Yamaha Mt-100 MK II fourtrack recorder.
   Immense thanks to all who contributed to my search.   -c

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 3 May 90 11:20:11 BST
From:         "Benjamin M. J. Ellis :->" 
Subject:      UKC and the Tape

Hi again,
         for whoever it was who asked what/where
is ukc, ukc is:
               The University of Kent at Canterbury.

         as the name suggests, this is in Canterbury, in Kent, Kent is
the sticky out bit at the bottom right hand side of England...

         Secondly, I'm very interrested in getting hold of this magnetic
filings tape, and maybe sending in something for tape II.

                      Benjamin.
                      @ U.K.C.
                      England.

P.S. Meltay, can you give me detail of the last two synths you mentioned
     you know, the ones you mentioned after the roland one!

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 2 May 90 20:41:48 EDT
From:         Cecilia Tan 
Subject:      Magnetic Filings II

Hello, there, your friendly emusic tape compiler here.

First off, I have several blank tapes for requests of Magnetic Filings
  that I haven't yet finished.  Fear not, I will be getting to them.

Secondly, I am starting to think about Volume II...  my difficulty
  is that it's likely I'll be without net access all summer, and then
     it's also dubious as to whether I'll be getting any in the fall...
        I'm fairly sure I'll be able to scam up something, though.
  So, what do y'all think about waiting until September to begin the
    next compilation?  And projected release around Christmas?
       I'm thinking of getting the duplicating done at a pro-place and
          taking orders in advance...
                                     -ctan

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 2 May 90 21:39:00 CST
From:         jeff beer 
Subject:      Mag files II

Yes, September sounds good.   And if I don't have a contribution,
then you all must get on my case.

Jeff

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 2 May 90 09:55:46 EDT
From:         "And now for something completely different..."
Subject:      Magnetic Filings

Hi All,
 Is there anyone in the U.K. who could make a copy of the Magnetic Filings
tape that was put together by EMUSIC-L people a while back? I know a couple of
people who would like to hear it. I can send a blank tape and postage to anyone
in the U.K. who would be so kind to spend a few minutes duplicating it.
 Please E-mail me on my janet address.

 Barry

   BSR @ Uk.Ac.Lancs.Ph.V1

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 2 May 90 16:32:00 N
From:         Max 
Subject:      RE: Magnetic Filings

Yes, I would also be interested in having a copy of the magnetic filings
tape. Could also send a blank tape to anyone in the U.K. (or closer to Italy)
plus postage expenses and anything else the willing fellow might require
for this GRrreeaaat service!!!!!!!!!!
Keeping my fingers crossed............
Thanx, Ciao

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 4 May 90 11:32:00 EST
From:         "William R(ay) Brohinsky" 
Subject:      Man-Machine Interface Archive


from Edo Roos Lindgreen:
>Suggested reading is Mike Metlay's series on this subject

Does anyone (even M.M. himself!) have these writings archived? I'd like
to see them.
You can send to me (raybro@utrcgw.utc.com) directly, or, if demand
warrents, post them to the net again.
-raybro

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 4 May 90 13:24:00 EDT
From:         "b.klassen" 
Subject:      Man-Machine Interface Archive

I seem to have five parts stowed away on my trusty uVAX.  I believe that it is
complete (Mike?) ... if anyone wants it, send me email and I'll gladly forward
it.

While I'm at it, can anyone give me a phone number or address for the Computer
Music Journal?  I have not been able to find it around here, not even in my
favourite Toronto bookstore (which even carries the UK version of Music
Technology).

brian

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Klassen                                             1200 Main St. West
Computer Services                                         Hamilton, Ontario
Chedoke-McMaster Hospitals                                L8N 3Z5
                          (416)521-9800 x5153
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 4 May 90 12:57:00 EDT
From:         METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: step programming

My series on the subject of man-machine interfaces, you mean?

Well, it'll be reprinted in the Computer Music Journal in about a month.

(If you can't wait, you'll have to ask around; I have no archives.)

metlay

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 4 May 90 13:06:09 EDT
From:         Joe McMahon 
Subject:      Re: step programming

I have the whole series here in a single file; what I will try to do is
get them put out on the LISTSERV so that they can be gotten directly
from there. In the meantime, I'll be happy to mail out a copy to anyone
who wants them.

 --- Joe M.
                                    |  "That's by Stockhausen...the
Internet: xrjdm@scfvm.gsfc.nasa.gov |  early crowd tends to dig your
  BITNet: XRJDM@SCFVM               |  Radio Cologne sound."
   Phone: (301) 286-8090            |
                                    |  --Pynchon, _The Crying of Lot 49_

------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 7 May 90 08:20:00 N
From:         Max 
Subject:      Re: step programming

Raybro,
        I believe I have a copy of the Metlay writings archived on some floppy
somewhere. Give me a chance to look for them and I'll e-mail them to you.....
Ciao for now


-Mauro-

------------------------------

Date:         Sun, 6 May 90 22:40:00 EDT
From:         METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Man-Machine Interface Archive

Five parts? Keyboards, percussion, guitars, winds, miscellany? That sounds
right to me.

I'll dig up and post the CMJ's address, if Steven t Pope doesn't beat me
to it.

metlay

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 4 May 90 15:15:00 EST
From:         D_NOLAN@UNHH.BITNET
Subject:      Kurzweil 250

Attn...Metlay and co...

None of you know me but...

I'm looking for a used (cheap rather) Kurzweil 250 (rmx, if poss)

Can't find any bargains in the "music" stores here in NH.


Thanks....................................................Shadow

------------------------------

Date:         Sun, 6 May 90 22:49:00 EDT
From:         METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Kurzweil 250

Kurzweils? Get outa here, kid. I deal in REAL synthesizers. |->

That was for Nick's benefit. Courtesy of a J. Rossi (a mutual friend of
ours) I am now reading a Kurzwweil manual, attempting to determine if
the damn thing IS a real synth or not. (Whatever "real" means.)

As for 250s, I can't help you. Have you asked rec.music.synth? That's
where used-gear brokerage normally goes on.....

metlay

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End of EMUSIC-L digest
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