issue4

EMUSIC-L Digest                                    Volume 16, Number 4

   4-track (2 messages)
   Tascam 644
   Being serious (3 messages)
   Ensoniq VFX: is this a bug I see before me?
   He's Back Onto Bass Synths
   Homestudio BBoard at UMNEWS@MAINE
   Nick's TX-7
   Request for help (samples of musical instruments) (2 messages)
   REQUEST FOR MIDI FILE EXCHANGE
   SMPTE trick (3 messages)
   Datastream thinners and performance sequencers (22 messages)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 22 May 90 23:53:10 BST
From:         "Patrick C.K.Tsang" 
Subject:      4-track

>Yes, I have 4-track but when using SMPTE I put the sync tone on track
>4 and had to leave track 3 un-used as a "guard" track. I have a friend
>that has the same machine and run into this same problem. After you
>have filled up tracks 1 & 2 with overdubs and tried to overdub on
>track 3 it would cause the sync tone to become VERY flakey making the
>whole SMPTE thing unusable. I have heard suggestions to put very quiet
>stuff on track 3 and it will work but this has only work some times.

>So when I use SMPTE I have to count on the loss of 2 tracks not just
>one.

	Further strengthens my argument that 4-tracks are somehow
	limited when it comes to 'serious' recording.

							Patrick.

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 22 May 90 23:28:42 EDT
From:         "David A. Roth" 
Subject:      Re:  4-track

>From: "Patrick C.K.Tsang" 
>Subject:      4-track
>To: Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L 
>Status: R
>
>>Yes, I have 4-track but when using SMPTE I put the sync tone on track
>>4 and had to leave track 3 un-used as a "guard" track. I have a friend
>>that has the same machine and run into this same problem. After you
>>have filled up tracks 1 & 2 with overdubs and tried to overdub on
>>track 3 it would cause the sync tone to become VERY flakey making the
>>whole SMPTE thing unusable. I have heard suggestions to put very quiet
>>stuff on track 3 and it will work but this has only work some times.
>
>>So when I use SMPTE I have to count on the loss of 2 tracks not just
>>one.
>
>	Further strengthens my argument that 4-tracks are somehow
>	limited when it comes to 'serious' recording.
>
>							Patrick.
It depends on what you consider "serious" ? What I consider to be
"serious" I take to a 24-track pro studio but use the 4-track to work
things out as pre-production.

Depending on what you are doing sometimes two analog tracks sync to a
bunch of synths is all that is needed.

David

------------------------------

Date:         Sat, 12 May 90 12:26:00 CST
From:         jeff beer 
Subject:      644

Regarding the discussion on the 644, there are users satisfied with its
performance, and the mixing capabilities are also highly regarded.
( See the Hybrid Arts bulletin board)

The eight track, 688 is another story.


It also should be pointed out that a new release of Dolby is coming out,
if not already out.   Dolby R, they call it, and it is supposed to be
able to make analog cassettes compete with DAT.

I don't have any kind of recorder yet.  I had always in the back of my
mind been keen on an 8 track reel to reel.  But I don't even think I
need that.  If only there were 4 tracks where you wouldn't have to burn
a track for a sync track.   Some of the higher end DATs are reported
to have 2 stereo tracks PLUS a sync track, but they are priced higher
than the 8 track reel to reels.

In the meantime, I might pick up a portable 4 track cassette, nothing
fancy, for recording rehearsals and gigs.

Jeff

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 23 May 90 09:54:00 EST
From:         "Richard S. Holmes" 
Subject:      Being serious

Is it my imagination, or are a lot fewer "serious" or "contemporary classical"
or whatever you want to call them composers involved with electronic music?
Seems to me as though 10 or 20 years ago Subotnick, Ussachevski, etc. were in
their heyday, and now "electronic music" either isn't a genre any more or is
taken to mean either electronic rock or electronic new age.  (The latter seems
to be what our local public library means.)

There's a "Society for New Music" in Syracuse that does maybe 6 to 10 concerts
a year; for various reasons I've been to few, but I don't recall seeing much or
any electronic music in descriptions of their programs.  I did go to a concert
of music featuring double bass (done by the Syracuse Symphony bass section, and
it was free... quite a show) that included one piece for tape and bass.

Have all the conservatory types abandoned electronics or have I just become
unplugged from the places one would hear about it?  Other than Wendy Carlos and
(a few years back; no idea where he is now) Easley Blackwood, who's out there?
And how does one hear their music?

                                                   Rich Holmes

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
|  Richard S. Holmes    |                     |                            |
|  Physics Department   |    (315)443-5973    |  rich@suhep.bitnet         |
|  Syracuse University  |    or      -2701    |  rich@suhep.phy.syr.edu    |
|  Syracuse, NY 13244   |                     |                            |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

DISCLAIMER: I have no opinions.

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 23 May 90 11:34:00 EST
From:         "William R(ay) Brohinsky" 
Subject:      RE: Being serious

Could you define `serious' electronic music? somehow I don't see
how Ussachevsky and Carlos and their relative output can be grouped together.
Let alone Subotnik...

raybro

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 23 May 90 14:28:00 EST
From:         "Richard S. Holmes" 
Subject:      RE: Being serious

>Could you define `serious' electronic music? somehow I don't see
>how Ussachevsky and Carlos and their relative output can be grouped together.
>Let alone Subotnik...

>raybro

I mean as contrasted with rock, pop, jazz, rap, folk, C&W, or Hawaiian nose
music.  Obviously Carlos and Subotnick have little in common; then again, the
same was true of Wagner and Schumann, or of Stravinsky and Sibelius.

                                                   Rich Holmes

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
|  Richard S. Holmes    |                     |                            |
|  Physics Department   |    (315)443-5973    |  rich@suhep.bitnet         |
|  Syracuse University  |    or      -2701    |  rich@suhep.phy.syr.edu    |
|  Syracuse, NY 13244   |                     |                            |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

DISCLAIMER: I have no opinions.

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 23 May 90 14:12:56 BST
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Ensoniq VFX: is this a bug I see before me?

As I've probably mentioned, I bought a VFX last week, even though I
started the anti-Ensoniq flamefest that was raging across
rec.music.synth last month.

I like the VFX. A lot. I have some wonderful new sounds coming out of
it already, after having hacked around with it for a few hours.
I'm glad I bought it.

Apart from the bugs. These are the two most critical ones I've found:

	o Select the ALTO SAX patch from the ROM voices. Play a single
	  note fast, repeatedly, pressing both patch select buttons at
	  exactly the same time you hit the key. Sometimes you don't
	  get any note sounding.

	o The VFX doesn't work well with MOTU's MIDI Time Piece. If
	  you use the VFX as a master keyboard to play another unit
	  through the MTP, it generates spurious hung notes (a lot of
	  them very low, like C-1, C0) and MIDIscope indicates
	  reception errors. My other keyboards are fine with the MTP.
	  The VFX is fine playing other units direct or through my
	  normal Mac/MIDI interface or through my MX-8.

If you can try either/both of these yourself, please do so and
post/mail your findings.

		Nick.

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 24 May 90 17:12:15 BST
From:         "Benjamin M. J. Ellis :->" 
Subject:      He's Back Onto Bass Synths

O.K.,
     Some of you may remember be going on about, well
asking about bass synths, and MIDI basses. Well, erm...
I just got a provisional go ahead to design, develope
and build a MIDIed bass guitar, its going to be fret-
wired, and probably won't respond to pitch bend (ie
you bend the string, the pitch won't change - but this
ain't much of a problem on Bass guitar), it will be
velocity sensitive and it will be based on a real
bass guitar, so you'll be ablew to get a 'real' bass
sound as well, it will respond to pull offs and hammer
on's...
     So does anyone have any last words of advice for
me, or know of anyone I could contact to get
some last words of advice, before I die... arg...


                - Benjamin
                  U.K.C. England

------------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
E-mail:       bmje.ukc.ac.uk        :  Snail Mail:  B.M.J. Ellis,
            University of Kent      :               33 Parkfield,
               at Canterbury        :               Chorleywood,
                  England           :               Herts. WD3 5AZ
------------------------------------+-------------- England --------------------
"Today I am a small blue thing, like a marble or an eye... I am cool and smooth
 and curious, I never blink, I am turning in your hand, turning in your hand
 small blue thing..."                                            - Suzanne Vega.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:         Sat, 26 May 90 05:26:00 EDT
From:         PRESTON@MOREKYPR.BITNET
Subject:      Homestudio BBoard at UMNEWS@MAINE

     For all those who were interested in a  discussion  list  on  the
  topic  of home studio recording, I've created a BBoard discussion at
  UMNEWS@MAINE called Homestudio...  I did this to avoid the hassle of
  justifying the creation of such a list on someone's LISTSERV, and to
  see how much interest  gets  stirred  up  (in  order  to  justify  a
  LISTSERV list in the future).
     Anyone  wanting  to  "subscribe",  just  send  this  message   to
  UMNEWS@MAINE :

  BBOARD SUBSCRIBE HOMESTUDIO your_name_here

     I look forward to seeing some of you people on Homestudio in  the
  near future!


                               Jeff Preston
                              (a.k.a. "n.n.")

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 23 May 90 19:10:32 BST
From:         "Patrick C.K.Tsang" 
Subject:      Nick's TX-7

Nick,

	Don't sell your TX-7 to a dealer. I would seriously consider
	buying it off you.

							Patrick.

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 25 May 90 13:50:28 BST
From:         "S.Oates" 
Subject:      Request for help (samples of musical instruments).

Can anyone provide information about the McGill University Master
Sample Series of compact disks? I would particularly like to know if
there is a U.K. supplier, and if not, the American contact address. Any
additional information about the quality of the disks and similar
series would be helpful.

Thanks in advance.
Shaun Oates.

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 25 May 90 11:32:20 CST
From:         Jason Keeler 
Subject:      Re: Request for help (samples of musical instruments).

Well, I can't give you the American contact address, but I can give you
the Canadian address: McGill University Master Samples
                      55 Sherbrooke Street West
                      Dept. K
                      Montreal, Quebec, Canada
                      H3A 1E3
                      (514) 398-4548

As for the quality of these samples, I seem to remember a keyboard mag review
which rated these samples as being very good.  Not sure which issue though...

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 24 May 90 14:30:00 CST
From:         NWILL02@ECNCDC.BITNET
Subject:      REQUEST FOR MIDI FILE EXCHANGE

I am a Grad. Composition student.
I would like to exchange MIDI
files of any type of music.
I have a 9 min. Wind Quintet and a 3 minute
Viola-Piano piece. They are originally
for acoustic instruments but I
emulated them.
Also if somebody likes to play
I would be happy...
Ali R SARAL
Office of Research in Arts Tech
Illinois SU

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 24 May 90 14:37:05 EDT
From:         David Rubin 
Subject:      Avoiding guard track

I haven't tried this, but it seems like it would work.

Record your SMPTE code on track 4, then record some stuff onto track 2.
Now regenerate (or simply bounce) the SMPTE code from track 4 to track 1.
Now you can use track 1 as the sync track, and since track 2 is already
complete, you should have no problems, and you can proceed to fill up
tracks 3 and 4.

The SMPTE code gets corrupted when recording onto an adjacent track
at the same time you are syncing to the code, since some of the sound
being recorded bleeds through onto the head that is monitoring the
SMPTE track.  The above method should avoid this situation.

--
Dave Rubin

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 25 May 90 09:15:05 EDT
From:         "David A. Roth" 
Subject:      Re:  Avoiding guard track

>From uucp Fri May 25 08:34 EDT 1990
>From: David Rubin 
>Subject:      Avoiding guard track
>To: Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L 
>
>I haven't tried this, but it seems like it would work.
>
>Record your SMPTE code on track 4, then record some stuff onto track 2.
>Now regenerate (or simply bounce) the SMPTE code from track 4 to track 1.
>Now you can use track 1 as the sync track, and since track 2 is already
>complete, you should have no problems, and you can proceed to fill up
>tracks 3 and 4.
>
>The SMPTE code gets corrupted when recording onto an adjacent track
>at the same time you are syncing to the code, since some of the sound
>being recorded bleeds through onto the head that is monitoring the
>SMPTE track.  The above method should avoid this situation.
I have tried starting off recording on track 3 with the sync tone on 4
and by the time I get to recording on track 1 I run into problems.
Perhaps I am wrong that it has nothing to do with the "guard" track
but I thought it was a safe assumption since on larger multi-tracks
(i.e. 16, 24) they is how it is done.
>
>--
>Dave Rubin
Using SMPTE I have not tried to re-record the SMPTE sync tone since I
have read that it can't be done. You can re-record the SMPTE sync tone
if you use something like a jam sync box which is used for things like
this. The purpose of the jam sync (assuming I have the name correctly)
is to do transfers from one multi-track to another along with the
SMPTE sync tone. This jam sync box reads the SMPTE and re-creates it
to other multi-track machine everything is being transfered to.

In other words, If you were given a 16 track tape with SMPTE and you wanted to
transfer it to a 24 track and keep the SMPTE you would use such a
box.

I have also seen ads for equipment that helps read SMPTE the sync tone
has drop outs.

Now that I think of it you might be able to use the jam sync box to
regenerate instead of bouncing the SMPTE sync tone.

By the way, Dave I appericate suggestions like yours. It causes us(me) to
re-think things.

David

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 25 May 90 12:52:02 BST
From:         "Patrick C.K.Tsang" 
Subject:      SMPTE trick

>Record your SMPTE code on track 4, then record some stuff onto track 2.
>Now regenerate (or simply bounce) the SMPTE code from track 4 to track 1.
>Now you can use track 1 as the sync track, and since track 2 is already
>complete, you should have no problems, and you can proceed to fill up
>tracks 3 and 4.

Sounds a good idea, but two problems are likely to occur:

1.) Tiny bits of code are lost in the tape drop-outs, which might
    corrupt the occasional semi-quaver or two.

2.) When re-dub the SMPTE onto track 1, some of the buzzing noise
    is going to leak into track2 as a result of crosstalk, so you
    might just get that annoying code noise in your music.

Both of these are dependent on the quality of your 4-track
of course. But the last time I did any SMPTE dubbing was
from my Tascam PortaOne onto left channel of my Casio DAT,
which should have resulted in a perfect replica of the code,
yet it totally failed !,

------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 21 May 90 09:54:02 BST
From:         "Benjamin M. J. Ellis :->" 
Subject:      Widgets and other non existant things!

O.K. I thought I'd like to bounce this one off of you to get some ideas:

    If you could commission the design of ANY bit of MIDI gear
    that wasn't on the market at the moment, what would you
    want to have designed.

Go on, there must be some piece of gear that you've thought "wow! that
would be useful" only to find that no-one makes it!

     any ideas?

                - Benjamin
                  U.K.C. England

------------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
E-mail:       bmje.ukc.ac.uk        :  Snail Mail:  B.M.J. Ellis,
            University of Kent      :               33 Parkfield,
               at Canterbury        :               Chorleywood,
                  England           :               Herts. WD3 5AZ
------------------------------------+-------------- England --------------------
"Today I am a small blue thing, like a marble or an eye... I am cool and smooth
 and curious, I never blink, I am turning in your hand, turning in your hand
 small blue thing..."                                            - Suzanne Vega.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 22 May 90 02:46:14 EDT
From:         "David A. Roth" 
Subject:      Widgets and other non-existent things!



>From: "Benjamin M. J. Ellis :->" 
>Subject:      Widgets and other non existant things!
>To: Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L 
>
>O.K. I thought I'd like to bounce this one off of you to get some ideas:
>
>    If you could commission the design of ANY bit of MIDI gear
>    that wasn't on the market at the moment, what would you
>    want to have designed.
>
>Go on, there must be some piece of gear that you've thought "wow! that
>would be useful" only to find that no-one makes it!
>
>     any ideas?
>
>                - Benjamin
>                  U.K.C. England
>
I would like to see a pocket-type MIDI filter that would "thin" the
pitch-bends sent from my wind controller before it gets to the
sequencer. Pitch-bends really eat-up memory and processing time.

David
david@david.UUCP

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 22 May 90 10:30:06 EDT
From:         Dean Swan 
Subject:      Re:  Widgets and other non existant things!

Yes, there is something I desparately need, and might actually get
motivated enough to do it.  I need a "performance sequencer".

I'm sure you've all heard of people using samplers to do background
vocals where they map one word to each key, so they can keep in sync
with the live band.  Well my idea for a sequencer is somewhat similar.

I want to be able to map multi-track, looped sequences to keys, so that
a key on event starts the sequence, a key off event stops it, or continues
it until another key on, or whatever.  So I quess the idea is sort of a
combination patch bay-sequencer-mapper device.  As for the sequences tied
to note-on, note-off events, you should also be able to play multiple sequences
at once (say 8 or 16).  This would let you do anything from simple
arpeggiator type things to complex polyrythmic, multi-part sequences, and
for live gigs you could vamp forever to let soloists do their thing, or
whatever.

Sorry for being so un-organized about this, but is anybody else desparately
in need of such a device?  If so, I could be persuaded to embark on such
a project.  I think it would be great to produce a 1U box that could do this
for under $1000 (US).  Obviously, the first go at it would be software on
a PC, or Atari, or Mac.

-Dean Swan
dean@sun.soe.clarkson.edu

P.S. Oh yeah, the tempo would have to be controllable in real time from
     key pressure, or some continuous controller (mod wheel, etc).  And
     make it an offset from the recorded tempo track, with an adjustable
     range (so you can keep in sync with the live band).

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 22 May 90 21:18:32 CST
From:         Jason Keeler 
Subject:      Re:  Widgets and other non existant things!

Well, you're in luck!  'PocKet FILTER' from ANATEK is probably just what you
need.  These things are (from what I hear) very reliable and cheap (about
$100 CDN).  Should be available at your local music store...Jason

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 22 May 90 21:24:49 CST
From:         Jason Keeler 
Subject:      Re:  Widgets and other non existant things!

Check out MUSIC-X....It's keymapping module covers most of what you aspire
to have in your sequencer.  Of course, you'll have to buy an Amiga first :)

...Jason

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 22 May 90 23:40:07 EDT
From:         "David A. Roth" 
Subject:      Re:  Widgets and other non existant things!

>From: Jason Keeler 
>Subject:      Re:  Widgets and other non existant things!
>To: Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L 
>In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue,
>              22 May 90 02:46:14 EDT from 
>
>Well, you're in luck!  'PocKet FILTER' from ANATEK is probably just what you
>need.  These things are (from what I hear) very reliable and cheap (about
>$100 CDN).  Should be available at your local music store...Jason
>
I have seen them.  They don't " thin" filter controller data like pitch-bends
they either enables the data to flow or disables it.

David

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 23 May 90 19:19:03 BST
From:         "Patrick C.K.Tsang" 
Subject:      Button sequencer

>Yes, there is something I desparately need, and might actually get
>motivated enough to do it.  I need a "performance sequencer".

>vocals where they map one word to each key, so they can keep in sync
>with the live band.  Well my idea for a sequencer is somewhat similar.

>I want to be able to map multi-track, looped sequences to keys, so that
>a key on event starts the sequence, a key off event stops it, or continues

	Cheetah of England has indeed built such a sequencer. You can
	program complete sequences and assign them to any keys on your
	keyboard for playback.

	What even more amazing is that it can assign a sequence to a
	range of keys, say C1-C2, and playing the key above or below
	your destined 'reference' key transposes the whole sequence
	by equal amount. E.g. a bassline in C would play in F if you
	assign to C first and then play F key.

	The retail price is about 250 pounds stirling, and the market
	it aims for is the Alesis MMT-8 bracket.

							Patrick.

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 23 May 90 14:10:54 BST
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Widgets and other non existant things!

>Sorry for being so un-organized about this, but is anybody else desparately
>in need of such a device?

If you have the cash ($3000?) you could buy a Zyklus, which does this
kind of thing. Vangelis uses one. I read a review a year or two back.

Nick.

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 23 May 90 14:38:26 BST
From:         Tony Jewell 
Subject:      Re:  Widgets and other non existant things!

> I want to be able to map multi-track, looped sequences to keys, so that
> a key on event starts the sequence, a key off event stops it, or continues
> it until another key on, or whatever.  So I quess the idea is sort of a
> combination patch bay-sequencer-mapper device.  As for the sequences tied
> to note-on, note-off events, you should also be able to play multiple
 sequences
> at once (say 8 or 16).  This would let you do anything from simple
> arpeggiator type things to complex polyrythmic, multi-part sequences, and
> for live gigs you could vamp forever to let soloists do their thing, or
> whatever.

Now, I'm willing to be shouted at if I'm wrong, but I think someone has already
come up with something fairly similar.

There was something called the Zyxklus (?) Midi controller, which had a bunch
of buttons and permutation thingies on the front - you could load a sequence
per button, and play these singularly or as arpeggios or whatever - wonderful
for live work. As far as I know, this does almost everything you would want,
but it was hideously expensive.

Oberhiem also produced some rather cheap little arpeggiator /sequencer
/processor thingies a while back, called the Cyclone and the Systemizer which
did that sort of thing, and where described as a poor mans Zyxklas (how was it
spelt ?)

Also the new cheetah MS-8 sequencer has 8 buttons on it for triggering 8
different sequences in realtime over a backing track or whatever. I know
that both the Oberhiems and Cheetah are really cheap.

Sorry to be so vague here, but I am working from memory .. anyone expand
for me ?


--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Tony J Jewell
  Systems Officer		City Of London Polytechnic
                                                           ___     .    ___
  JANET:          tonyj@uk.ac.clp.unixa                   /   \   /    /   \
  EARN/BitNet:    tonyj@unixa.clp.ac.uk                  /       /    /___ /
  EAN:            tonyj%clp.unixa@ean-relay.ac.uk       <____/  <___ /
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 23 May 90 15:19:48 +0100
From:         White Rabbit 
Subject:      Re:  Widgets and other non existant things!

>Yes, there is something I desparately need, and might actually get
>motivated enough to do it.  I need a "performance sequencer".

>I want....


  There was such a 'performance sequencer'; came out about two years ago,
made by a company called Zyklus.   They went bust, but SOME might still be
kicking around.  They were VERY expensive though ^ 2K+ pounds UK...

  They were designed to be used instage and were quite ruggedly designed...

  Dunno how easy it would be to get one, or the cost though...



*******************************************************************************
White Rabbit : found in these burrows          *
                                               *
JANET      : sxa@uk.ac.dl.cxa                  *
Internet   : sxa%cxa.dl.ac.uk                  *   ...and the dormouse said
EARN/Bitnet: sxa%cxa.dl.ac.uk@UKACRL           *
UUCP       : sxa%cxa.dl.ac.uk@ukc.uucp         *       feed your head.
Ean        : sxa%cxa.dl.ac.uk@ean-relay.ac.uk  *
********************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 23 May 90 10:44:40 EDT
From:         Dean Swan 
Subject:      Re:  Widgets and other non existant things!

I've been thinking about getting an Amiga 3000 anyway.  With a Mac emulator
and a PC emulator (and I hear rumors that there is an Atari ST emulator)
it would cover a lot of bases in one box.  I'll check it out.

-Thanx.
Dean

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 23 May 90 12:06:55 EDT
From:         Jeffrey R Kell 
Subject:      Re:  Widgets and other non existant things!

If you are looking for a "performance sequencer" then the sync issue is much
more difficult than you envision, especially if you have a real drummer.
I always wished for a sequencer that had a foot pedal (or preferably a drum
pad on the floor) for sync pulses; tapping your foot on the pad on the basic
1-2-3-4 beats and having it re-sync itself.  The "variable controller" you
mentioned is OK for coarse control to start with, but once you get out of sync
its a nightmare trying to resync yourself with just a slider.

/Jeff/

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 23 May 90 13:30:00 EDT
From:         Danny Weiss 
Subject:      Re:  Widgets and other non existant things!

    > I always wished for a sequencer that had a foot pedal (or preferably
    > a drum pad on the floor) for sync pulses; tapping your foot on the
    > pad on the basic 1-2-3-4 beats and having it re-sync itself.

    A couple of years ago, a device called the "Human Clock" was
    introduced.  I don't remember offhand who manufactured it (it was in
    the US), but it could generate time code (midi time code, song position
    pointer, maybe smpte) based on a trigger input., i.e. kick drum or
    snare.  I was pseudo-intellegent, so  wouldn't need to always play a
    steady 1-2-3-4, or whatever, it could approximate if you left out a
    beat.  Anyways, it was designed mainly for syncing live performances up
    with electronic sequences.  I have no idea if it is still on the
    market, but it did get quite good review when it first came out.  If
    anyone is interested, I can look it up in my back issues of keyboard
    and/or electronic musician.

    Danny

|-----------------------------------|---|-----------------------------------|
| Danny Weiss                       |   | WEISS_D@STEVENS.BITNET            |
| Stevens Institute of Technology   |   | WEISS_D@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU     |
| Hoboken, NJ  USA                  |   | Compuserve: 73357,1774            |
|-----------------------------------|---|-----------------------------------|

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 24 May 90 14:36:00 EDT
From:         "John Young, Southern CT State Univ" 
Subject:      Cheetah sequencer

>>I want to be able to map multi-track, looped sequences to keys, so that
>>a key on event starts the sequence, a key off event stops it, or continues
>
>       Cheetah of England has indeed built such a sequencer. You can
>       program complete sequences and assign them to any keys on your
>       keyboard for playback.
>
>       What even more amazing is that it can assign a sequence to a
>       range of keys, say C1-C2, and playing the key above or below
>       your destined 'reference' key transposes the whole sequence
>       by equal amount. E.g. a bassline in C would play in F if you
>       assign to C first and then play F key.
>
>       The retail price is about 250 pounds stirling, and the market
>       it aims for is the Alesis MMT-8 bracket.
>
>                                                       Patrick.

Patrick,

Can you tell us more info about this sequencer?  The model #?  Is it
available in the US?  It doesn't have a disk drive, does it??  Do you
have an address for Cheetah?

                                        Thanks,
                                        John Young

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 24 May 90 10:25:50 BST
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Widgets and other non existant things!

>Oberhiem also produced some rather cheap little arpeggiator /sequencer
>/processor thingies a while back, called the Cyclone and the Systemizer which
>did that sort of thing, and where described as a poor mans Zyxklas (how was it
>spelt ?)

Well, Oberhiem is spelt Oberheim.... and the unit you're thinking of is the
Zyklus (I think that's the spelling - german for Cycle). I know that Vangelis
uses a Zyklus (there's one pictured in the photo on the Direct CD), but
they're very expensive, as you say.

I have an Oberheim Cyclone. It's pretty cheap looking construction-wise
and the software is rather buggy, but I've made quite a lot of use of
it (my emusic-l tape piece had some Cyclone sequencing), and for $200
it was well worth it.

Nick.

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 25 May 90 10:24:01 EDT
From:         Dean Swan 
Subject:      Re:  Button sequencer

Sound's like the Cheeta sequencer might be the ticket.  Of course
I may need several of them to really have fun, but if they're that
cheep, I gould get about 8 of them for the price of a zyklus.

-Dean Swan
dean@sun.soe.clarkson.edu

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 25 May 90 10:59:07 BST
From:         Tony Jewell 
Subject:      Re: Cheetah sequencer

> Can you tell us more info about this sequencer?  The model #?  Is it
> available in the US?  It doesn't have a disk drive, does it??  Do you
> have an address for Cheetah?

THe machine you want is the MQ8, retailing at 249 pounds in the UK. It doesn't
have a disk drive, and I don't have the address of cheetah on me, I'm afraid -
I'll try and get it to you soon.

--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Tony J Jewell
  Systems Officer		City Of London Polytechnic
                                                           ___     .    ___
  JANET:          tonyj@uk.ac.clp.unixa                   /   \   /    /   \
  EARN/BitNet:    tonyj@unixa.clp.ac.uk                  /       /    /___ /
  EAN:            tonyj%clp.unixa@ean-relay.ac.uk       <____/  <___ /
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 25 May 90 10:10:45 EDT
From:         Dean Swan 
Subject:      Re:  Widgets and other non existant things!

Of course it's a nightmare to resync with a slider.  I've tried this before.
The idea is that the sequences you have tied to the keys are *short*, like
only a few measures, so if you get lost, you just let go of the key, the
 ssequence
stops, and you re-trigger it when appropriate to resync.  (Hopefully only
a few beats away.

The idea about pressure or some such controller being tied to tempo is so that
when you hear the drummer dragging or racing, you can compensate.  The idea is
for the controller to have a fine range (say +/- 5 bpm) around the programmed
tempo track.  Of course if you set the range of the slider to be from 10 to
250 bpm, it would be useless.

QUESTION: Haven't any of you ever done a background vocal with a sampler?
You sample the whole phrase, then cut it up into pieces, and assign one
piece to each key over a range of the keyboard.  Then to play it back, you
can keep the sync by deciding when to trigger each segment of the sample.

I could do exactly what I want with a sampler if I had unlimited sample RAM.
.....Oh! And unlimited oscillators.  Unfortunately, that is not the case.
Besides, the sequencer would be able to do some other things as well, MIDI-wise.

Nick, what is a Zyklus?  Could you elaborate?

-Dean Swan
dean@sun.soe

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 25 May 90 10:17:02 EDT
From:         Dean Swan 
Subject:      Re:  Widgets and other non existant things!

The "Human Clock" was made by Kahler.  It worked great, and was very good
at following a live drummer.  The problem is that even though it would
sync your sequencer to a live player, all it could make the sequencer do
was play a song from start to finish.  That's about as useful as playing to
a tape.

-Dean Swan

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 25 May 90 10:20:54 EDT
From:         Dean Swan 
Subject:      Re:  Widgets and other non existant things!

Actually, Oberheim's Cyclone is actually what got me thinking about this
whole thing.  It comes close to what I want, but it's not quit there.

Based on Tony's description of the Zyklus, it doesn't sound like it quite
covered all the bases either.  If anyone could dig up a reference on it,
I'd appreciate it.

-Dean Swan

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 25 May 90 16:41:50 BST
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Widgets and other non existant things!

>Nick, what is a Zyklus?  Could you elaborate?

Er, no, not without digging out the review from Sound On Sound (or was
it Music Technology?) a couple of years ago. It was one of these weird
very expensive one-off units by some unknown company, European I'd
guess (since no-one in the US seems to heard of this unit). Look at
that picture in the Vangelis Direct CD to see what it looks like; you
can just about see the unit at the top right, with a fancy "Z" printed
on it. It allowed all kinds of sequences to be triggered in parallel
or independently from various MIDI events. That's about all I
remember.

The other weird expensive unit which comes to mind is the Axcel Resynthesiser,
which was a granite-coloured slab with a large matrix of LED's for
drawing waveforms. The startup message on it was "forget technology/think
music". Price: stratospheric, bordering on orbital.

		Nick.

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 25 May 90 15:51:03 EDT
From:         Jeffrey R Kell 
Subject:      Re:  Widgets and other non existant things!

On Fri, 25 May 90 10:10:45 EDT Dean Swan said:
>Of course it's a nightmare to resync with a slider.  I've tried this before.
>The idea is that the sequences you have tied to the keys are *short*, like
>only a few measures, so if you get lost, you just let go of the key, the
> ssequence
>stops, and you re-trigger it when appropriate to resync.  (Hopefully only
>a few beats away.

Reminds me of the old "dugga-dugga-dugga" bass lines you used to hear (MiSex,
Blondie, etc).  You could do them neatly on an Arp Odyssey with repeat turned
on and it "magically" reset with each key trigger.

>QUESTION: Haven't any of you ever done a background vocal with a sampler?
>You sample the whole phrase, then cut it up into pieces, and assign one
>piece to each key over a range of the keyboard.  Then to play it back, you
>can keep the sync by deciding when to trigger each segment of the sample.

Well, sort of.  We used to do the Billy Idol version of Mony Mony; you've all
probably heard the "audience participation" part during the verses.  I did
a sample of each word (about 8 of us around a mike after practice), doubled
and detuned it, and chorused it up a bit to sound like a big crowd.  You have
to play around a bit with the sample start so it comes in right on time when
you hit the key.

/Jeff/

------------------------------

End of EMUSIC-L digest
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