issue03

EMUSIC-L Digest                                    Volume 20, Number 3

This issue's topic: Whither EMUSIC-L?

   Administrivia
   A really unpleasant proposal (4 messages)
   Cut the newsfeed
   Cutting the newsfeed
   The feed
   Large agreement to unpleasant proposal (9 messages)
   SOLUTIONS TO EMUSIC WOES
   The Anti-USEnet Witch Hunt (from the guy who started it) (4 messages)
   The feed, the tape, etc.
   Usenet cut and related subjects
   What then?

Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon .
You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with 
the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text.
 
The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the 
University of North Carolina.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 22 Aug 90 09:23:13 EDT
From:         Joe McMahon 
Subject:       Administrivia


Due to the proliferation of Usenet feeds to our list, I'm going to
try to codify what I see as our unstated rules and regulations for
this list.

1) Ads are strictly not allowed by BITNet rules. No ads. None. Nada.
   Advising someone as to whether they are getting ripped off *if they
   ask the list* is permissible; otherwise, use private mail. Requests
   for addresses of mail-order firms, etc. are OK. Mentioning prices
   published elsewhere is OK. Cutting deals on your own personal
   equipment is not OK. If you must, do it privately.
2) Discussions as to the relative merits of hardware/software/etc. are
   permissible, as long as the reviewers state evidence supporting their
   opinions. Ad hominem attacks will not be tolerated. Arguments based
   solely on personal taste are not acceptable.
3) Beginners will be treated with kindness and respect. There is no
   such thing as a dumb question. If you can answer, answer, and be nice
   about it. Otherwise, say nothing.
4) EMUSIC-L is meant to be for the discussion of electronic music, in
   the studio, the classroom, in performance, and on recordings, including
   techniques, resources, user reviews and experiences, and speculation
   on futures. Some divagations will be tolerated; however, the list owner
   maintains final say as to the subject matter on the list and will move
   to terminate off-topic and (especially) rancorous discussions.
5) Usenet access to the list poses a problem. There is only a single
   path to the list from multiple Usenet users. If a particular user
   on Usenet causes trouble, the only way to remove this person is to
   close Usenet access. It behooves all Usenet users to make sure that
   these guidelines are followed. If Usenet access is closed, you will
   still be able to read the list via netnews, but you will have to
   post by mailing to EMUSIC-L@AUVM.BITNET. This would be inconvenient
   for everyone, and we'd like to avoid it.
6) Please refrain from adding to the noise level by commenting about
   accidental private posts to the list or the accidental sendings of
   SUBSCRIBE requests or suchlike to the list. That's my job. If you
   must pour out your wounded feelings ;-), use private mail.
7) The listowner (namely me) is permitted to be as arbitrary as
   he or she pleases. I've never had to take action against a member
   of the list for breaking these rules, even when they hadn't been
   stated. I will notify offenders via private mail and I will wait for
   a response. But I don't have time to play Politeness Monitor. I
   will cut feeds and remove users from the list only if I must. But
   be assured that I will if the quality of this list starts to
   suffer.

If you have problems with any of this, talk to me privately. Now,
let's get back to e-music!

  --- Joe M.

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 31 Aug 90 11:11:00 EDT
From:         METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject:      A really unpleasant proposal

At the risk of taking considerable heat, both from people whose opinions
mean nothing to me and from people about whom I care a great deal, I would
like to propose something to the older membership (i.e. prior to two weeks
ago) of EMUSIC-L.

I think we should ask Joe McMahon to cut the USEnet feed.

I am sick and tired of discussing the merits of XYZ vs. ABC with respect
to price, bells'n'whistles, or one's self-image. I want to get back to
discussing musical techniques, philosophies, and approaches to composition
and sound development. We aren't going to be crippling these people by
cutting them off; in most cases, any node that accepts a group like
bitnet.listserv.emusic-l will also be able to receive rec.music.synth,
and for those nodes which can't get rec. groups at all, well, I'm sorry.

I'm not a TOTAL snob. I don't mind helping novices, and I don't mind getting
information disseminated on the latest gear... but NOT in this mailing list!
It wasn't designed for it, it can't handle the traffic, and it's BORING ME.
There is a place for discussing the latest toys, and it's accessible to
almost anyone with a USEnet feed, by definition. Let them use it! They'll
be more than welcome there, and get tons of good discussion from a lot of
intelligent and experienced readers, many of whom ALSO read this List. But
I, and probably they, would like to choose the level of sophistication at
which a discussion progresses, by choosing which group to read. Before I
left Tennessee, I was a well-known poster on rec.music.synth, and generated
more than my share of bandwidth. That's what it was for. But I do not want
EMUSIC-L to turn into a r.m.s clone.

I'm calling for discussion on the subject. There will NOT be a vote; the
feed is in Joe's hands, and the decision is his, legally and practically,
to make. But he needs to see what people have to say, and he's going to
be looking for REASONED arguments in both directions. Mine are based on the
intended audience of the List and on the availability of a non-moderated
USEnet group fro techno-toy flamewars. If you're a USEnet reader and you
really desperately WANT to stay on this list, SUBSCRIBE! It's your right,
and it doesn't cost anything, and the worst thing that happens is that
(a) you have to read the posts as mail, which will explain why the rest
of us want to see bandwidth controlled, and (b) if you persist in dragging
inappropriate subject matter into the discussions, Joe now has the power
to cut you off, which he admittedly DOESN'T have with the USEnet feed.
No loss to you-- IF you're reading this List for its intended purpose!

So there's my opinion: weed out the casuals by killing the feed.

Others?

metlay

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 31 Aug 90 09:25:23 -0700
From:         PMY@VIRGINIA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: A really unpleasant proposal

>So there's my opinion: weed out the casuals by killing the feed.

Yep.

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 4 Sep 90 14:49:23 EDT
From:         Dean Swan 
Subject:      Re: A really unpleasant proposal

I tend to agree with Mike on this one.  This list does generate an awful lot
of mail that amounts to gear-head talk.

-Dean

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 5 Sep 90 18:05:58 HST
From:         Mike 'IR' Ressler 
Subject:      A really unpleasant proposal
I tried posting this from usenet - it obviously didn't work. This is in
reply to Metlay's "really unpleasant proposal".

        Hang on a second, please. I'm not sure this post will make it to all
you "official" emusic-l types because I read it from usenet and I don't know
if the typical followup will work; I'm an astronomer and music hacker, not a
computer guru. Even though I've never posted on emusic-l, I've been reading it
ever since our site got usenet access about nine months ago and it has been
quite interesting (in spite of the xyz vs. abc flames). I suppose I should
become an official subscriber, but frankly, I don't have a clue as to how to
actually do it - I found bit.listserv.emusic-l in my .newsrc file one day and
said "oh, that looks interesting" and I was right.

        While I agree that there is a non-negligible amount of noise
contributed by my usenet brethren, I suspect that there are others like me who
never would have found out about emusic-l without the usenet feed (and thus
would never have had the pleasure of reading Metlay's inspired postings ;-)
actually, I really did enjoy them; good food for thought). So please, before
you get too serious about cutting off usenet, consider whether it is worse to
put up with extra noise or to lose potentially interesting discussion from
people who wouldn't otherwise find out about emusic-l.

        Sorry for lowering the S/N even further.

                                                Mike

P.S. Could some kind soul please tell me how to officially subscribe?

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 4 Sep 90 09:38:01 MDT
From:         Adam Schabtach 
Subject:      Cut the newsfeed

I have to agree with Metlay's proposal to cut the feed. This list is
becoming more and more like rec.music.synth, i.e. less and less
useful. I think cutting the feed would help bring emusic-l back to a
more concentrated and useful discussion group. If I want to read/write
chatter about new gear (and I do, often) I can do that on
rec.music.synth.

--Adam

P.S. It occured to me that this message was a contribution to the
noise level we're objecting to. However, since I hope Joe will base
his decision partly on the number of votes he reads, I wanted to cast
my vote.

------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 3 Sep 90 13:13:00 EDT
From:         CHRIS@FANDMA.BITNET
Subject:      RE: cutting the newsfeed

I would be in favor of such a move.  I've been a subscriber quite a while
and can remember when this list was discussing subjects like the creation of
a cross-platform language for describing synthesized sounds, and other heady
stuff.  I even used to contribute!  Now I find myself deleting most of the
mail I get from E-music unread.  I think that those who really are interested
in this list should subscribe to it and be accountable.

As for the state of the close-knit "family", it's still here, I think.  The
family has grown considerably, but still feels like family to me.  I'm glad to
be a part of it.  Now if we can just conserve our most precious resource -
BANDWIDTH - I think we'll be OK...

-chris

------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 3 Sep 90 12:30:17 BST
From:         "Benjamin M. J. Ellis :->" 
Subject:      Feed.

Hi!
   I've been reading this list for quite a while now (over 1 1/2 years I
think...), I'm also not a major contributor, being a naturally quiet person 8-)
Although the list has been of great interrested to me, and also an invaluable
source of information, and research data. I can safely say, that up until
recently, I have been interested in about 90% of the messages, unfortunately 'now the percentage isdown to about 10%... and the traffic is just blocking
up my mail box. Where's the family gone??? And where is the inspiration for my
next piece of music? where are all the nice ideas and useful hints??? I don'T
want to know how much better a XYZ is than a PPX, 'cos I can'T afford one, and
more than likely, I won'T WANT ONE! So... when is normality going to
be restored, and what happened to compilation tape 2???

                   - Benjamin M. J. Ellis
                     University of Kent @ Canterbury
                     England

P.S. Anyone know what's the best (well, cheapest)
     keyboard controller I can get??? (full size
     keys, pref. velocity sensitive)

------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 3 Sep 90 10:55:00 MET
From:         Robert Belleman 
Subject:      Re: large agreement to unpleasant proposal

I'm not a new member (I've been reading this list for over a year now) and have
always been sort of 'passive'. One of my opinions about lists like E-MUSIC is
that you should only contribute to a discussion when you REALLY have something
to say (in my case, that's not often). The reason why I have fallen in love
with E-MUSIC is just this.
Until recently, E-MUSIC was the list with the highest signal/noise ratio ever,
anywhere, but now it is coming near to the s/nr of I-AMIGA or lists like the
newsgroups on USEnet. If this is what E-MUSIC is going to be like, I'm going to
unsubscribe, and probably a lot of others with me.

I agree with Metlay. I think E-MUSIC should return to the nice close familly it
was before The Feed. Like Metlay said; there's nothing lost about this, people
who really want to contribute can always subscribe.

Joe, you're probably still on your holiday right now, but I hope you will
agree and cut of The Feed ...

-- Rob

        Robert Belleman, system-manager,
         the Netherlands Cancer Institute Amsterdam.

        Internet / PMDF :       ROBBEL@VAXH.NKI.NL
        X.25            :       PSI%02041291011::ROBBEL
        Surfnet         :       ROBBEL%NKIVXH.SURFNET

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 31 Aug 90 13:01:32 EDT
From:         "Daniel B. Singer" 
Subject:      large agreement to unpleasant proposal

I, too (a relatively new member--1 month), have already grown tired
of machine comparisons and would like to see the discussions proceed
as metlay suggested.

DBS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Daniel B. Singer -- "This Space Intentionally Left Blank"
Return addresses: dbs4@lehigh.bitnet  //////  dbs4@ns.cc.lehigh.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 31 Aug 90 10:18:57 PDT
From:         "Don Johnson x2908 ms:c3-40 Pole: F7" 
Subject:      RE: large agreement to unpleasant proposal

I'll add to this discussion.  I'm a new member, and I'd hate to
see this group disappear just after it started.  I'd like to see the
discussions go towards technique and methods and far, FAR away from
"Gee, that's a great XYZ!" repeated over and over.

But rather than kill the cat, I think a gentle (OK, maybe not so gentle)
reminder of what this group is about and what Is and Isn't welcome is
sufficient.

  DJ

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 31 Aug 90 13:54:00 EDT
From:         METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: large agreement to unpleasant proposal

From "Don Johnson x2908 ms:c3-40 Pole: F7" :

>I'll add to this discussion.  I'm a new member, and I'd hate to
>see this group disappear just after it started.  I'd like to see the
>discussions go towards technique and methods and far, FAR away from
>"Gee, that's a great XYZ!" repeated over and over.

Well and good. But....

>But rather than kill the cat, I think a gentle (OK, maybe not so gentle)
>reminder of what this group is about and what Is and Isn't welcome is
>sufficient.
>
>  DJ


Indeed? What was Joe's recent letter, which accomplished nothing? How
often must such a reminder be made? Once a month, as they do it on
comp.sys.*? Once a week? And what happens when people protest the
guidelines and precipitate flamefests? These problems are NOT restricted
to USEnet readers, but a List with registered readers alone is much
easier to police. And before anyone dumps any bull on me about First
Amendment Rights, I have to point out that posting on this List is a
PRIVILEGE, NOT a right. (And the Supreme Court backs me up on this
principle, with a recent court decision.)

If you truly LIKE what we're aiming for, then subscribe. If you truly
want to restrict dialogue to topics other than reading spec sheets, then
you have nothing to fear. Simple, no? (Besides, I HATE cats. |-> )

metlay

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 4 Sep 90 07:30:16 EDT
From:         Lee Calhoun 
Subject:      Re: large agreement to unpleasant proposal

>Until recently, E-MUSIC was the list with the highest signal/noise ratio ever,
>anywhere, but now it is coming near to the s/nr of I-AMIGA or lists like the
>newsgroups on USEnet. If this is what E-MUSIC is going to be like, I'm going to
>unsubscribe, and probably a lot of others with me.
>

...and I am one of them.

I am also a 'passive' member who has got a lot from this list in the past.  Add
my voice to those who would like to see the s/n ratio raised-- if cutting the
Feed will help, so be it.

Lee Calhoun (*subscriber*)
Center for Computing Activities
Columbia University

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 4 Sep 90 11:18:00 EDT
From:         "William R(ay) Brohinsky" 
Subject:      Re: large agreement to unpleasant proposal

So how do I tell if I am crossfeed (and therefore noise) or not (and thus,
by definition, signal, and allowed to continue to belong to this list!)?

It's not that I disagree with Metlay's proposal, but I do wonder if the
persons on the far side of the feed could be encouraged not to be noisey
into this band, rather than all of them cut off. Is the cross feed a
two way street?

a somewhat confused, even worried, raybro

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 4 Sep 90 18:58:00 EDT
From:         Brad Miller 
Subject:      Re: large agreement to unpleasant proposal

    Date:         Mon, 3 Sep 90 10:55:00 MET
    From: Robert Belleman 

Same situation here, and I agree completely. I don't need crap in my
mailbox, I need useful information. Cut the link!
----
 Brad Miller		U. Rochester Comp Sci Dept.
 miller@cs.rochester.edu {...allegra!rochester!miller}

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 5 Sep 90 09:30:59 EDT
From:         Patrick Robinson 
Subject:      RE: large agreement to unpleasant proposal

On Fri, 31 Aug 90 10:18:57 PDT Don Johnson x2908 ms:c3-40 Pole: F7 said:
>I'll add to this discussion.  I'm a new member, and I'd hate to
>see this group disappear just after it started.

The group is not going to disappear.  It didn't just start.

>But rather than kill the cat, I think a gentle (OK, maybe not so gentle)
>reminder of what this group is about and what Is and Isn't welcome is
>sufficient.

I'm not a TOTAL snob, either, but my perception from reading USEnet
news for the last year or so is that reminders, gentle or otherwise,
don't accomplish diddly.  Its a free-for-all.  I agree wholeheartedly
with Metlay's proposal.  What's the point of EMUSIC-L if it degenerates
into a clone of r.m.s?  What's the problem with getting EMUSIC-L
postings as mail?  That's how it works for the rest of us.  If there
is a concern about folks being AWARE of this group, a notice of some
sort could be posted to r.m.s regarding what the group is about, and
how to go about subscribing.

>  DJ

-Patrick

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 7 Sep 90 10:51:06 EDT
From:         "Michael Lehnertz (Drummer)" 
Subject:      Re: large agreement to unpleasant proposal

   Cutting the Feed? What is this "Feed" anyway?

   What most of you feel is "noise" may NOT be noise to some other people. My
mentioning of the Roland R-8 (and I am sure this is one of the drum machines
you are complaining about) I think helped a lot of people. It is going to be
THE best drum machine for studio work, for the price. So, what is the problem
with that? Some of us ARE drummers. Also, I was led to believe that EMUSIC was
not limited only to recording.

                                               - Drummer -

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 5 Sep 90 09:27:22 EDT
From:         "ISA-HRDD Robert N. Muth" 
Subject:      SOLUTIONS TO EMUSIC WOES

I have read about 15 messages, most of which roughly read, "cut the feed; I'm
tired of the junk".  I see the rationale in doing this.  It's a way to keep
everybody contributing to the list accountable.  Unfortunately, all of the junk
isn't coming from the feed.  I've been a subscriber to emusic-l for about 9
months.  Alot of the drum machine diarrhea from about 2 weeks ago came from me.
After thinking about what I had written, I realized that maybe one of my
messages was partially pertinent, and that the remainder were just banter.

Unfortunately, I do not see the subject material as being a waste of time for
this list.  It is just that specs and such are being treated the wrong way
on this list.  When I first joined this list, I was amazed as to the amount
of educated insight that was present on it.  Insight on everything from
product information to methods of synthesis and so on and so on.  Also, when
I first regularly read the list, MANY people were beaming about the bells of
XYZ and what catchword ABC was sporting.  I feel that we've had this
problem of some 'junk' on the list for much longer than anyone wants to admit.

I also feel we already have a solution to this dilemma.  A) Make the readership
accountable and B) Direct the trivial questions directly to the resources that
may have the answers.  For example, if someone is new and asks, "what is XYZ
and what can it do?", don't castrate him.  Rather, inform him to get the rolodex
file from the listserv and tell him to contact people that have the same
item.  Or if you choose, answer his questions IN A PRIVATE POSTING.  This
will limit the noise considerably, without having to sacrifice some of the
value of the readership's knowledge that this list has to offer.

Let's face it; some people on this list are ones that are trying to learn
as much as possible.  I'm definitely one of them.  Although I may not be
able to contribute much now, if my brain soaks up enough of what is being
discussed on this list (or what info I have been sent to), then maybe I'll
be able to start some serious discussions.  Regardless, I'm still grateful
that something like this is available, even if I can't contribute much.  Let's
keep emusic-l a place for ALL type of subjects of electronic music, even if
it involves questions of products.  As long as we treat the answers right,
we'll keep the noise down and the old guard content.

|=============================================================================|
| Robert N. Muth                   Internet:  rmuth@cor1.pica.army.mil        |
| Coop Student/EE    	                      u92_rmuth@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu |
| Stevens Tech/Picatinny Arsenal     BITNET:  U92_RMUTH@SITVXC                |

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 4 Sep 90 17:30:00 EDT
From:         METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject:      The Anti-USEnet Witch Hunt (from the guy who started it)

It's beginning to look as if I've created a monster here.

We've had some problems recently with what's now being referred to as The
Great Drumbox Debate, and hints at other gosh-wow threads concerning the
latest gear in the stores. The post in which I proposed cutting off the
USEnet feed was an attempt to deal with this sudden influx of new and (to
the established population) dull babble, by getting USEnet posters to EMUSIC-L
to realize that this is not "just another USEnet newsgroup" and encouraging
the established population to articulate the boundaries we are attempting to
enforce.

The resulting clamor has not been precisely what I wanted: on EMUSIC-L, there
has been an almost unanimous groundswell of support for the cutting off of the
feed, with a great deal of cameraderie, mutual backslapping, and a general
closing of ranks among all concerned, and I have received a number of timid
"what have I done wrong?" letters and one or two actual reasoned protests-- IN
PRIVATE MAIL! The people who are most threatened by the cutoff are so cowed by
the hatred they feel from our "friendly little family" that they're afraid to
post their protests!

I started this business, I believe in it, but I have very little need for the
ego-stroking that comes with rallying supporters to one's cause. I don't want
supporters; I want to do the right thing, for EMUSIC-L and for the USEnet
community. And all the words of encouragement in the world don't help me in
that as much as Eric and Raybro's quiet protests did: they made me stop and
think about the frenzy I was whipping up. I'm not playing Devil's Advocate
here-- I want EMUSIC-L's readership to stop and answer a very important
question for me, one that's at the centre of this whole issue:

What do we hope to accomplish through EMUSIC-L?

I know what we DON'T want here; Joe has spelled that out very nicely already,
and we all can agree to it-- we don't want to waste our time reading spec
sheets and macho posturings about whose electronic phallic symbols are the
most intimidating, or wading through the telecommunications equivalent of a
Jerusalem street bazaar, with everyone haggling and yelling at each other
about the best new/used gear prices. We understand (at least I hope we do)
that there's a rowdy, high-bandwidth, friendly USEnet discussion group for
those very purposes already OUT there, and that cutting off the USEnet feed
will remove no one from access to that other forum, while it will also
discourage casual postings from the usual USEnet bandwidth mongers. Fine.

We also understand that for someone who knows where to look, it's actually
EASIER to subscribe to EMUSIC-L than it is to read it as a newsgroup: all
one needs is a mail address, not a USEnet feed. So anyone who IS cut off can
get right back on-- AS LONG AS THEY SUBSCRIBE, and put their name on the
line as being accountable for what they say here. Well and good.

But those are NEGATIVE limits: "Thou shalt not." Where are the POSITIVE
limits, the ones that encourage postings and dialogue of a sort we're all
looking for? We can't expect to get it if we don't know what it is!

I can make suggestions: EMUSIC-L, in MY mind, is an academically based mailing
list for the discussion of electronic music, and that means that the topics
raised tend to be the more mind-stretching ones, the ones that go beyond the
mundanities of the newest toys except in those cases where the toys open new
vistas of thought. (A good example would be the breath controller discussion;
the Yamaha BC's are items which allow exploration of the realm of breath
control of any sort in a cheap and sturdy manner, and they serve as a basis
for kits, existing gear, and software modifications that help us enter this
realm...hence, talking about them here is appropriate.) We discuss computer
languages in musical composition, the guts of algorithmic composition or the
newest synth philosophies rather than the toys that finally make last year's
new ideas marketable, the description of (or inability to describe) musical
tone in codified notation/language, and so on. We strive to open each others'
eyes to the new and the different, and leave the mundanities of pricing and
specs to other places and times. Anyone can think or question others'
thoughts, it seems to me; you don't need a university studio, or a PhD in
psychoacoustics, or even a 1990-model-year synth workstation, to have a
worthwhile thought. So we should open our doors to anyone who wishes to share
their thoughts with us. The justification behind the cutting off of the USEnet
feed, then, is straightforward: anyone who likes such discussions enough to be
willing to "sign" his or her name to a SUBSCRIBE order will stay with us, but
the access for the net.bored who search around for new places to generate wind
will be cut off, leaving us to chat with one another in peace.

There are flaws in this vision. The charter of EMUSIC-L says nothing,
absolutely NOTHING about subject matter restrictions, other than to forbid the
sale or trade of equipment. Therefore, my view of EMUSIC-L is wishful
thinking, a utopian view, that could be flouted by anyone with the persistence
to do so. It would be well to remember this: my opinions are respected by most
of you, and my voice is very, VERY loud, but I do not make the rules regarding
this List. We ALL must agree upon those.

All that we will accomplish by cutting off the feed is to assure that anyone
who posts to the List may be ultimately held accountable for his or her words,
and be removed if they sufficiently hinder the flow of information here or
become obnoxious or abusive. We must not seize upon the USEnet feed as the
scapegoat for our own abuses of EMUSIC-L; most or all of us have posted about
new gear at one time or another, myself included. We will be disappointed if
we expect our woes to vanish with the USEnet feed!

We should also address the reverse of this problem, one raised to me by a
poster to whom I could not return mail: that of getting USEnet feeds for
people here on the List who cannot access USEnet, and hence attempt to make
EMUSIC-L do for ALL of their synthesis-related correspondence. Does anyone
know of a gateway for accessing USEnet from machines with no feeds, perhaps
as a mailing list? There are those who'd like to be able to reach the USEnet
world as well, who cannot.

The votes are coming in, and they are almost unanimous as of now: if Joe
follows the request of the majority, then soon we will see bitnet.listserv.
emusic-l vanish from the .newsrc files of USEnet newsfeeds everywhere, and
breathe a sigh of relief. The question I now pose is, what shall we do then?

metlay

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 4 Sep 90 19:52:00 EDT
From:         Brad Miller 
Subject:      Re: The Anti-USEnet Witch Hunt (from the guy who started it)

    Date:         Tue, 4 Sep 90 17:30:00 EDT
    From: METLAY%PITTVMS.BITNET@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

    We should also address the reverse of this problem, one raised to me by a
    poster to whom I could not return mail: that of getting USEnet feeds for
    people here on the List who cannot access USEnet, and hence attempt to make
    EMUSIC-L do for ALL of their synthesis-related correspondence. Does anyone
    know of a gateway for accessing USEnet from machines with no feeds, perhaps
    as a mailing list? There are those who'd like to be able to reach the USEnet
    world as well, who cannot.

In the usa, at least, there is a company "PSINet" that sells INTERNET access
for a pretty minor fee (if you are a company)... something like $50./mo.
That can get you USENET access as well, but more importantly ftp to all
those INTERNET sites...

Sorry, I don't have an address, but they have local feeds in at least
Boston, NYC, DC, Rochester... (and if they're in Rochester, they must be
EVERYWHERE :-)

----
 Brad Miller		U. Rochester Comp Sci Dept.
 miller@cs.rochester.edu {...allegra!rochester!miller}

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 5 Sep 90 10:34:55 bst
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      The Anti-USEnet Witch Hunt (from the guy who started it)

>What do we hope to accomplish through EMUSIC-L?

Perhaps there's a middle ground as well. At one end of the spectrum,
we have the "Hey, Guitar Center is blowing out RX577a's for $199, and
these machines really kick ass!" rubbish. At the other end of the
spectrum, we have the discussions about, say, "new directions", emusic
research, description languages, academic work, and so on.

rec.music.synth caters for the first lot. EMUSIC-L caters for the
second.  The rec.music.synth stuff is of some limited interest to me,
since the occasional poster will engage his/her brain before posting
an article, and there are some good threads from time to time. The
"academic" side of EMUSIC-L is also of interest, but again limited
(for my purposes). I have no criticism of it at all, but I'm just a
computer professional by day and a synth fanatic at evenings and
weekends. My main hobby is programming and playing synthesisers for
the purposes of composing and recording music. The synths and gear I
use is 99% off-the-shelf stuff. There's a lot I'm happy to talk about
here. I'm starting to plan out an extremely long and detailed article
going over the whole experience we've had taking two sets of sequenced
music material and two independent home studios, and getting
everything ready for a concert appearance several hundred miles away.
I thought it might be of interest, and there are lots of spin-off
topics about software design in current instruments, the flexibility
(or lack thereof) in current sequencer technology, the facilities
needed to learn, rehearse, and organise live playing, the arrangement
of the music, and so on. So: where do I post? Is anyone interested in
this?  Or is it just tech-head trivia? I'm too close to this project
at the moment to decide.

Nick.

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 5 Sep 90 19:36:20 EDT
From:         Dean Swan 
Subject:      Re:  The Anti-USEnet Witch Hunt (from the guy who started it)

I'd like to add a few things to Metlay's list of things that, ostensibly,
*are* appropriate topics for discussion here.  I think that sythesis
techniques, and technology are appropriate (in a scientific/academic
sense, rather than a how synth XYZ works sense.)

Also, I didn't mind the virtual reality discussion.  Things like that
are worth learning about, as well as the mic-ing techniques, or tricks-
with-a-four-track type discussions.

What I don't like to see, and I think the only thing I ever complained
about is requests for FTP sites for gobs of free shit that you probably
don't really nead, and aren't related to any current (or recent) topics
of discussions.

Just my opinion.....

-Dean Swan
dean@sun.soe.clarkson.edu

------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 3 Sep 90 18:04:54 EDT
From:         ronin 
Subject:      the feed, the tape, etc

i, too, had noticed that the recent discussions were tending toward redundancy.
not having kept tabs on the sending addresses, i'm not entirely certain
that this is due to the list's accessibility through The Feed. if there *is*
a direct correlation, then i'm probably for cutting it off, as well. one thing,
though... let's not forget that ignorance is not a crime. i, for one, will
never tire of answering sincere questions from those willing to learn. part
of this, of course, is that that's my job. i teach this subject. but i also
like to interact with the learning *process*, if you know what i mean. on the
other hand, i am in total agrrement that this beating of trivialities like
which drum machine is 'the coolest', or whatever, into the ground, is driving
me bugshit.
the Sound Description Language, for those of you who brought it up, died.
i couldn't do it alone. it was a vaguely formed idea (that is still cogitate
on, and still think has applications), that i just don't have the skills to
generate on my own. if anyone wants to talk about it... get in touch.
about that tape.. does anyone have a copy of Edition 1? i never got one.
as for #2, if there is enough interest here, i am currently in a position
to pull together such a project. get in touch... if there's a small groudswell,
then i'll do it.
now... will someone please answer my questions regarding K/S and Granular
synthesis?

----------< Extremism In The Pursuit Of Good Noise Is No Vice >----------
Eric Harnden (Ronin)                 | V.P., Chief Engineer
                       | Transmedia Music, inc.
The American University Physics Dept.| (202) 347-8050
Washington, D.C                      |

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 4 Sep 90 20:45:10 -0400
From:         "Jerry A. Jelinek" 
Subject:      Usenet cut and related subjects

I have contributed some postings to this discussion list.  I have
requested information on techo gear related stuff, and up until
this usenet beef, I never been asked to stifle my postings. When
I subscribed some 2-3 months ago, there was never any mention of
what subjects were or were not appropriate for discussion. I felt
at a loss when people began to question the subjects that were
being discussed.
I am a new member to internet and bitnet discussions and ENJOY them
very much.  Please forgive the uniformed members of this list and
please be more FORGIVING of our mistakes.
I will continue to use emusic and look forward to future discussions
, but please dont wave a axe over my head for opening my BIG MOUTH
to discussions which you feel are unappropriate.
I now have a clearer idea of what emusic is and is not and will
judge my postings accordingly.

Jerry

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 4 Sep 90 20:45:29 EDT
From:         "Daniel B. Singer" 
Subject:      What then?

I know "what then" :

    We bring the discussion back to interesting things like the musical
qualities of rotating speakers, emusic curricula, relative merits of
particular techniques for creating sound, special configurations of
equipment for producing unusual effects with usual sounds.... things
of that nature.  That's EMUSIC-L's purpose, in my humble opinion.  We
should concentrate on making music with the electronic media and on
the discussion of what constitutes music these days. . . .

DBS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Daniel B. Singer -- "This Space Intentionally Left Blank"
Return addresses: dbs4@lehigh.bitnet  //////  dbs4@ns.cc.lehigh.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------

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