issue14

EMUSIC-L Digest                                      Volume 56, Issue 14

This issue's topics:
	
	Sony Minidisk (7 messages)
	The kid next door (literally) (was Re: Sony Minidisk)

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Date:         Thu, 9 Sep 1993 21:20:01 GMT+7200
From:         CHAOS@SOFTLAB.II.UJ.EDU.PL
Subject:      Re: Sony Minidisk

My personal opinion about MiniDisc:

I own this device for some time. I performed some tests, in recording
studio. The tests were very amateur. We recorded Roxette CD via analog
input. Then we connected my MD recorder and good Technics CD player (I
forgot the number) to very good Soundcraft mixing console. We were able
to easily switch between MD and CD (the levels and equalization were
set exactly the same).

Results: I could not hear ANY difference in frequency response. The
only drawback of MD was noticable background noise. I didn't heard any
results of data compression except this noise. Dynamic range is very
good, comparabe with CD, but CD lacks any noise (thanks God!). I don't
know if this noise is result of compression or other things (this is
very first model, portable, we used analog input, etc.)

The convinience of using MD instead of any tape is simply uncomparable.
The access time is very short, except when disc is loaded or started to
play. When disc plays you can switch to any track instantly. You can
simply remove any unwanted tracks, increasing free space on disk. New
tracks are always recorded at the end. The disk is very small and
convinient.

Maciek. chaos@ii.uj.edu.pl

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Date:         Tue, 7 Sep 1993 17:04:50 U
From:         David Williams 
Subject:      Re: Sony Minidisk

        Reply to:   RE>>Sony Minidisk
>Both the Minidisc and the DCC use compression that lose data, but of
>course the claim is that you can't notice the difference.  The only problem
>with that is that I heard somewhere (not a clue as to where) that one actually
>CAN hear the difference on the Minidisc (but not DCC--they use different
>algorithms).

Where can one find a good up-to-date summary or discussion on audio compression
algorithms?  Both for commercial audio and for computer sound files?

Dave Williams (dwilliam@ilstu.edu)
Illinois State University

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Date:         Tue, 7 Sep 1993 20:57:54 GMT
From:         Herschel A Gelman 
Subject:      Re: Sony Minidisk

In article <9308310804.AA00498@hostsit.cad.cea.fr> hbsk@HOSTSIT.CAD.CEA.FR
(David HAUBENSACK) writes:
>> Has anyone had any experience with the new Sony Minidisk.  Does anyone
>> know how much they cost.  I'm wondering if it would be a cheaper alternative
>> to DATs for two track mastering.
>>

>I wonder if the compression used really lost datas... I know that the MD uses
>a 1Mb RAM to buffer its work and to compress in real-time, but I didn't read
>anything about a losing-data-compression-algo.

It does.  Both the Minidisc and the DCC use compression that lose data, but of
course the claim is that you can't notice the difference.  The only problem
with that is that I heard somewhere (not a clue as to where) that one actually
CAN hear the difference on the Minidisc (but not DCC--they use different
algorithms).

Anyways, I hardly do any of my own music/recording, so this is a relatively
uninformed opinion here, but it seems that DAT is still the way to go, given
that you can't hear any loss of quality and that its use has become so
widespread.  I can't really see everyone suddenly forgetting about DAT and
running to Minidisc...

--
---------------- Herschel Gelman ----------- hagst3+@pitt.edu -----------------

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Date:         Tue, 7 Sep 1993 18:06:00 EDT
From:         John Rossi III 
Subject:      Re: Sony Minidisk

Personally, I've heard MiniDisk and I think it sounds quite good.  I didn't
get a chance to A/B it with a DAT or real CD, however.  One thing I can say
definately is that it sounds much better than any analog cassette I have
ever heard.  My guess is that either MD or DCC will eventually replace
analog cassettes as we use them now.  I still think it is a toss up as to
which format will win out (maybe even both) since each has its advantages.
Personally, I think that for my purposes in replacing analog cassettes
(which lately is for car and walkman use almost exclusively), MD's compactness
and apparent durability (no media friction) would win out.

John

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Date:         Tue, 7 Sep 1993 19:31:00 EDT
From:         John Rossi III 
Subject:      Re: Sony Minidisk

Mix magazine did a good job about a year ago when the MD and DCC formats were
announced.

John

------------------------------
Date:         Tue, 7 Sep 1993 22:58:40 -0500
From:         Stephen David Beck 
Subject:      Re: Sony Minidisk

I seem to remember a recent issue of Electronic Musician had an extensive
discussion on the two formats.  I think it was August'93.  Then again, what the
heck do I know?  I'm only an academic composer.  They only let me out of the
ivory towers on Tuesdays and Einstein's birthday.
-sdb

------------------------------
Date:         Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:22:35 EDT
From:         Bill Fox 
Subject:      Re: Sony MiniDisk

Dr. J. R. III's response to the MiniDisk topic:
> Personally, I've heard MiniDisk and I think it sounds quite good.  I didn't
> get a chance to A/B it with a DAT or real CD, however.  One thing I can say
> definately is that it sounds much better than any analog cassette I have
> ever heard...

I've only had short "glimpses" of MD and DCC and I agree with John.

>         ...  My guess is that either MD or DCC will eventually replace
> analog cassettes as we use them now.  I still think it is a toss up as to
> which format will win out (maybe even both) since each has its advantages.

Again, I agree but since it is aimed at the cassette market, I think
that while MD and DCC costs are more like DAT than like cassettes, it
may take a while.  Even the blank and prerecorded media are expensive.
And being digital, the machines include SCMS and you pay royalties on
the machines and blank media, thanks to Congress' &*%$#@ actions last
year.  So for about the same cost, you might as well use DAT and avoid
the lossy compression.  I must say that I like the 10 second buffer
that MD uses on playback.

> Personally, I think that for my purposes in replacing analog cassettes
> (which lately is for car and walkman use almost exclusively), MD's compactness
> and apparent durability (no media friction) would win out.

Phillips is counting on compatibility to win the market.  Since DCC
machines can also play cassettes, those who have sizeable cassette
libraries might be swayed to DCC to save the time of transferring
everything to MD.

Bill Fox

------------------------------
Date:         Mon, 13 Sep 1993 05:17:31 PDT
From:         metlay 
Subject:      The kid next door (literally) (was Re: Sony Minidisk)

>It does.  Both the Minidisc and the DCC use compression that lose data, but of
>course the claim is that you can't notice the difference.  The only problem
>with that is that I heard somewhere (not a clue as to where) that one actually
>CAN hear the difference on the Minidisc (but not DCC--they use different
>algorithms).

There are several recent audio tests in various mags that claim better
fidelity for DCC. Electronic Musician comes to mind....

>Anyways, I hardly do any of my own music/recording, so this is a relatively
>uninformed opinion here, but it seems that DAT is still the way to go, given
>that you can't hear any loss of quality and that its use has become so
>widespread.  I can't really see everyone suddenly forgetting about DAT and
>running to Minidisc...

Quite true.

>---------------- Herschel Gelman ----------- hagst3+@pitt.edu -----------

Totally irrelevant parenthetical notes:

1. To everyone on the list except Herschel:

This fine young man is the son of my next-door neighbor! Nothing is
weirder than seeing a comment from the kid you remember seeing off to
elementary school on your favorite bboard.... at least now I know why
he was so avidly following the discussion after hours at the barbecue
my mom threw last Saturday night. Never said a word but stayed until
130AM, absorbing everything like a sponge. Heh! Actually it's too bad
he had to crash...the really weird topics didn't come up until about
330 or so. |->

2. To Herschel:

Hope you had fun on Saturday. If I'd KNOWN you were into emusic, I
would have taken more effort to get you involved in the conversation.
I certainly would have at least given you a formal introduction to
all of the net.famous who were sitting around the table, for Heaven's
sake! Ten years from now, Andrew Crowell's gonna have to say, "I went
to a barbecue with Herschel Gelman way back when, and nobody introduced
us. Talk about a brush with fame!"

And don't mind John Rossi... he's ALWAYS like that.  |->

--
mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Wow, now my hand's all sticky! Yum."                       (metlay's wife)

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