issue07

EMUSIC-L Digest                                      Volume 58, Issue 07

This issue's topics:
	
	Drum machines (22 messages)
	Non-Drum Rhythms (9 messages)
	Non-drum stuff
	Other tools (Was: Re: Drum machines)

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------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:         Tue, 9 Nov 1993 12:58:26 CET
From:         Jack Latanowicz 
Subject:      Drum machines

   Hello.

  I would like to ask drum users how to start collecting a MIDI drum kit.
First of all what is best choice of drum modules. I know some Korg S3
Yamaha RY30, Boss DR550mkII etc...
  I would like to know some models which have pretty nice sounds, and
they would be editable. I know that there are some machines (Korg S3 ?)
I like Roland drums, because Roland is well known for drums and piano...
I also know that Roland has big pads with MIDI controller. How does
that system work I don't really know. Is it possible to connect it
to a synth like JV880 ? Or better support it with some Roland R8M...
I'm really lost in drum area. All i know that tapping rhythms on
a keyboard is terrible, not mentioning sound quality of synth's drums.
 I'm also looking for a module which would have some basic effect processor
like reverb, echo...(again KorgS3 ?)
 But I don't want KORG drums....they are too bad...looking at my expirience
with M1...

 Is there a Roland machine with digital effect processor, with editable
sounds, with some MIDI options for dumps of banks (and not 20 year old
tape in/out plug...who in 90ies uses tapes for data storage ??????)
And most of all isn't expensive because comparing BossDR550 and KorgS3
for price to possibilities goes still to S3...

 I'm totally lost in drum area...

 Jack L.


BTW. Maybe Alesis ??????????

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Latanowicz      tel/fax Pl-(0-61) 798-202
Ul.Porzeczkowa 27    Jack@plpuam11.bitnet
61-306 Poznan
 P O L A N D         "exploring life is the sense of living..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date:         Tue, 9 Nov 1993 07:20:59 -0800
From:         "R. Fahl" 
Subject:      Re: Drum machines

Personally, I like the Yamaha RY30.  It's a combination drum synth/drum
machine.  The sounds that are in it are good, but the cool thing is that
you can edit them.  There are two waves per patch, two filters, with
resonance, a pitch envelope and other parameters that give you a lot of
control over the sound.  The presets sounds only hint at the machine's
potential.  Midi implementation is also very good.  YOu can switch
between different patterns from an external keyboard, for example.

I should also mention the wheel controller that is on the machine.  Makes
editing patterns on the fly a blast.  You can control filter level,
pitch, pan, balance and decay with it.

I will say that I find the sound a little thin, compared to Roland's
stuff.  I like Roland's machines a lot, too, but I went for this machine
because 1)it was $300 2)it has cool filters 3)it does sound good.

That's my $0.02 worth.

--
ms20

------------------------------
Date:         Tue, 16 Nov 1993 12:41:34 -0600
From:         Ken Fansler 
Subject:      Re: Drum machines

> I got only two replies on my question. One on Alesis SR16
> and second on Yamaha RY30. I need more info on other stuff.
> I collected some money and I'm stuck in middle of drum
> world.
>
> Thanx for replies and looking forward for some more. :)
>
> Jack L.


Jack -

The best drum machine I've ever worked with is the Alesis D4. There may be
better machines out there, but I haven't seen them. It has 20 banks with 60
patches in each bank (I think...), and it has audio jacks for triggering
capabilities. For its relatively low price, I don't think you'll find more
realistic drum sounds. It also allows for extensive editing of each patch/bank.

That's the best I can give you. Good luck!

Ken Fansler
kwfansle@ilstu.edu

------------------------------
Date:         Tue, 16 Nov 1993 19:15:05 CET
From:         Jack Latanowicz 
Subject:      Drum machines

    Hello again !


  Now come on guys...no one using an drum machine ????
Where are these 'prof dancers' etc ?? They tap with finger
or what ? :)
I got only two replies on my question. One on Alesis SR16
and second on Yamaha RY30. I need more info on other stuff.
I collected some money and I'm stuck in middle of drum
world.

Thanx for replies and looking forward for some more. :)

Jack L.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Latanowicz      tel/fax Pl-(0-61) 798-202
Ul.Porzeczkowa 27    Jack@plpuam11.bitnet
61-306 Poznan
 P O L A N D         "exploring life is the sense of living..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date:         Tue, 16 Nov 1993 16:12:36 EST
From:         Brian Good 
Subject:      Re: Drum machines

>
>     Hello again !
>
>
>   Now come on guys...no one using an drum machine ????
> Where are these 'prof dancers' etc ?? They tap with finger
> or what ? :)

> I got only two replies on my question. One on Alesis SR16
> and second on Yamaha RY30. I need more info on other stuff.
> I collected some money and I'm stuck in middle of drum
> world.
>
> Thanx for replies and looking forward for some more. :)

I've been using an Emu Procussion for about six months.  I'd been
using and HR-16 and, while the its sounds were reasonable, it really
had no ability to modify them, other than changing the pitch.  The
Procussion is much more flexible (and of course much more expensive.
Sigh).  One test I use when evaluating drum machines is to try to
reconstruct an authentic-sounding jazz snare;  at high volume, it
should display obvious attacks on each stroke, even in a roll.  At
low volume, however, the roll should sound almost continuous, and you
should hear little or nothing in the way of individual attacks.  The
Procussion is the first thing I've used that would do this convincingly
(by a combination of cross-fading, playing with envelopes and
using velocity to control the sample start delay).  Other modern
machines undoubtedly can do this, but I'm satisfied with the Procussion.
It *does* have a couple quirks.  First, while each drum kit contains
24 "stacks", i.e. patches (which may be layered), only 8 of the stacks
in each kit are user-programmable--you have to use factory stacks for
the other 16.  This is not quite as annoying as it sounds--there are
a *lot* of factory stacks, and many of them sound quite good.  Still...
Second, it's a rack unit--it has no pads or keys of any kind.  It also
has no trigger inputs, so you can only play it via MIDI.  I believe
Mike Metlay wrote a review of the Procussion a couple years ago.  It
ought to be archived somewhere, if you're seriously interested.

brian good

------------------------------
Date:         Wed, 17 Nov 1993 15:20:11 CET
From:         Jack Latanowicz 
Subject:      Re: Drum machines

On Tue, 16 Nov 1993 12:41:34 -0600 Ken Fansler said:
>Jack -
>
>The best drum machine I've ever worked with is the Alesis D4. There may be
>better machines out there, but I haven't seen them. It has 20 banks with 60
>patches in each bank (I think...), and it has audio jacks for triggering
>capabilities. For its relatively low price, I don't think you'll find more
>realistic drum sounds. It also allows for extensive editing of each patch/bank.
>
>That's the best I can give you. Good luck!
>
>Ken Fansler
>kwfansle@ilstu.edu


  Hello !

 First of all I would like to thank You and everyone who replied.
I must get closer look on Alesis SR-16 and D-4. I might consider
also EMU procussion.
 I just didn't hear any comments on Roland  R5/R8/R8M . Also
on other stuff. I know that there are a lot of machines.

  I need editable drums to make for instance sound like Timpani
or strange FX drums. I wish thay could be PCM based with typical
envelopes like in synths. Best option could consider some PCM
card slot for new samples...

  I will look forward for some more replies. Thanx again to those
who thrown their 0.02$ :-)

Jack L.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Latanowicz      tel/fax Pl-(0-61) 798-202
Ul.Porzeczkowa 27    Jack@plpuam11.bitnet
61-306 Poznan
 P O L A N D         "exploring life is the sense of living..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date:         Wed, 17 Nov 1993 09:48:28 PST
From:         metlay 
Subject:      Re: Drum machines

Young Goodman Brian scratcheth:

>I've been using an Emu Procussion for about six months.  [...]
>[...]  I believe
>Mike Metlay wrote a review of the Procussion a couple years ago.  It
>ought to be archived somewhere, if you're seriously interested.

  ...I did?

Hmmm....I guess I did! Wow. If anyone finds a copy of it, could they
send it back to me? I never save any of my reviews. But for what it's
worth, I would love to put a Procussion in my rig someday, but have
not gotten into rhythm/drum music enough to warrant the cost.

--
mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I incorporated the sound into my dreams...but I didn't wake up." (suzanne)

------------------------------
Date:         Wed, 17 Nov 1993 13:38:01 EST
From:         Brian Good 
Subject:      Re: Drum machines

>
> Young Goodman Brian scratcheth:
>
> >I've been using an Emu Procussion for about six months.  [...]
> >[...]  I believe
> >Mike Metlay wrote a review of the Procussion a couple years ago.  It
> >ought to be archived somewhere, if you're seriously interested.
>
>   ...I did?

You don't *remember*?  Come now, lad, *I'm* the one getting senile
(he mumbles as he slowly sinks into middle age...)

> Hmmm....I guess I did! Wow. If anyone finds a copy of it, could they
> send it back to me? I never save any of my reviews. But for what it's
> worth, I would love to put a Procussion in my rig someday, but have
> not gotten into rhythm/drum music enough to warrant the cost.

Well, surprise surprise.  My r.m.s. archive seems to have survived various
AIX crashes, failed backups and ill-advised housecleaning.  I can send
copies to people, as long as the good Dr. Metlay gives permission.

brian good
bgood@sundagger.lerc.nasa.gov
        or
bsgood@aol.com

------------------------------
Date:         Wed, 17 Nov 1993 13:41:08 EST
From:         Bill Fox 
Subject:      Was Re: Drum Machines

Dr. Mike muses:
>                                                 ... But for what it's
> worth, I would love to put a Procussion in my rig someday, but have
> not gotten into rhythm/drum music enough to warrant the cost.

And this from a man who is STILL trying to pare down his rig even though
it already seems rather minimal (in quantity only!) from my vantage
point.  D-70/Xpander/EX-8000/VS(rack!) is a GREAT *little* setup but it
is crying out for a sampler to be complete.  A sampler would cover
nicely for the Procussion plus it would have the advantage of being usable
for found sounds.  (Musik Conrete in the 90s!)  My current suggestions
would be K2000 or ASR-10, both available in rack form to keep things
compact.

Foxy

------------------------------
Date:         Wed, 17 Nov 1993 16:18:11 -0700
From:         Michael Kelsey 
Subject:      Re: Drum machines

I just bought the Kawai XD-5 percussion synth and I find it to be exciting
in its potential -- up to 4 waveforms can make one patch...envelopes for
DCA,DCF, etc stereo outs plus 6 single outs. And the price?...$218 at
Goodmans!

On Wed, 17 Nov 1993, Jack Latanowicz wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Nov 1993 12:41:34 -0600 Ken Fansler said:
> >Jack -
> >
> >The best drum machine I've ever worked with is the Alesis D4. There may be
> >better machines out there, but I haven't seen them. It has 20 banks with 60
> >patches in each bank (I think...), and it has audio jacks for triggering
> >capabilities. For its relatively low price, I don't think you'll find more
> >realistic drum sounds. It also allows for extensive editing of each
 patch/bank.
> >
> >That's the best I can give you. Good luck!
> >
> >Ken Fansler
> >kwfansle@ilstu.edu
>
>
>   Hello !
>
>  First of all I would like to thank You and everyone who replied.
> I must get closer look on Alesis SR-16 and D-4. I might consider
> also EMU procussion.
>  I just didn't hear any comments on Roland  R5/R8/R8M . Also
> on other stuff. I know that there are a lot of machines.
>
>   I need editable drums to make for instance sound like Timpani
> or strange FX drums. I wish thay could be PCM based with typical
> envelopes like in synths. Best option could consider some PCM
> card slot for new samples...
>
>   I will look forward for some more replies. Thanx again to those
> who thrown their 0.02$ :-)
>
> Jack L.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jack Latanowicz      tel/fax Pl-(0-61) 798-202
> Ul.Porzeczkowa 27    Jack@plpuam11.bitnet
> 61-306 Poznan
>  P O L A N D         "exploring life is the sense of living..."
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date:         Wed, 17 Nov 1993 20:05:22 CST
From:         David McMillan 
Subject:      Drum Machines

I am thinking about buying either the Yamaha RY-50 or the BOSS 550C.
Could I get someone's opinion on these.  I have already fooled around
with them at the music store, but I was hoping to learn a little more
before I go out and spend all that money.  Also, where is the best place
to buy one from?
                                                  Thanks In Advance
                                                  D.M.

------------------------------
Date:         Thu, 18 Nov 1993 08:25:33 +0000
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Re: Drum machines

>  Now come on guys...no one using an drum machine ????
>Where are these 'prof dancers' etc ?? They tap with finger
>or what ? :)

Yes, they do. I know that at least one of the most acclaimed contemporary
dancers in Scotland runs classes and workshops without music; she snaps her
fingers, claps, whatever. There are all sorts of reasons for doing things
this way.

I've gone through a dozen or so synthesisers in the last three or four
years, but have never owned a drum machine and never intend to. I either
use wave sequences, or build percussion patchers in MAX. Drum machines
strike me as being far too compromised and committed to the pop genre
feature-wise, and I really just don't like the sound of them (although I'm
impressed with what Dead Can Dance achieve).

                        Nick Rothwell   |   cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk
     CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance   |   cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk

------------------------------
Date:         Thu, 18 Nov 1993 09:03:53 CET
From:         Jack Latanowicz 
Subject:      Re: Drum Machines

On Wed, 17 Nov 1993 20:05:22 CST David McMillan said:
>I am thinking about buying either the Yamaha RY-50 or the BOSS 550C.
(...)
>                                                  Thanks In Advance
>                                                  D.M.



   Hay !

  BOSS 550C ?  Did You by mistake written 'C' or there is one of BOSS'es
I don't know yet...hmmm
  From what I know the Boss series released 660 which is better than 550s.
If You could give some info on 550C (compared to 550, 550mkII).

Jack L.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Latanowicz      tel/fax Pl-(0-61) 798-202
Ul.Porzeczkowa 27    Jack@plpuam11.bitnet
61-306 Poznan
 P O L A N D         "exploring life is the sense of living..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date:         Thu, 18 Nov 1993 09:08:56 CET
From:         Jack Latanowicz 
Subject:      Re: Drum machines

On Wed, 17 Nov 1993 16:18:11 -0700 Michael Kelsey said:
>I just bought the Kawai XD-5 percussion synth and I find it to be exciting
>in its potential -- up to 4 waveforms can make one patch...envelopes for
>DCA,DCF, etc stereo outs plus 6 single outs. And the price?...$218 at
>Goodmans!
>

   Hello !

 Thanks for info. Could You send more details on how much PCMs are there
and any new/card options for it. It sounds like a machine I'mlooking for.
Are the sounds realistic ? Does it have MIDI OUT (& sysex dump) ?
Many machines have only MIDI IN and tape jacks to store banks/sounds...
But who in 90'ies uses tapes to store data.....hmmmmm :)

Jack L.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Latanowicz      tel/fax Pl-(0-61) 798-202
Ul.Porzeczkowa 27    Jack@plpuam11.bitnet
61-306 Poznan
 P O L A N D         "exploring life is the sense of living..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date:         Thu, 18 Nov 1993 09:30:03 CST
From:         David 
Subject:      Re: Drum Machines

I think it was the BOSS 550mkII

------------------------------
Date:         Thu, 18 Nov 1993 17:49:53 GMT
From:         Lon Amerman 
Subject:      Re: Drum machines

On Wed, 17 Nov 1993 16:18:11 -0700 Michael Kelsey said:
>>I just bought the Kawai XD-5 percussion synth and I find it to be exciting
>>in its potential -- up to 4 waveforms can make one patch...envelopes for
>>DCA,DCF, etc stereo outs plus 6 single outs. And the price?...$218 at
>>Goodmans!
Available now at the Guitar Center (multiple locations in CA) for $179.
(this is, as Michael said, a "percussion synth" - not a drum machine)

------------------------------
Date:         Thu, 18 Nov 1993 21:05:00 LCL
From:         Peter Dorsch 
Subject:      Re: Drum machines

Hallo
If you like Roland Drum sounds you should take a look to the R70
drum machine.I think it has some very good features especially if
you want to record your patterns in real time. There's something
they call 'positional pad',a very long pad like the space bar on
your keyboard.  You can modulate a certain parameter (i.e.
tune,panorama,hit-position,brilliance,...).A very good idea! In
addition to this there are a lot of possibilities to edit the
ca. 210 sounds.I think I will buy it in the nearest future!
                      Peter

------------------------------
Date:         Fri, 19 Nov 1993 10:53:24 +0000
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Re: Drum Machines

>  BOSS 550C ?  Did You by mistake written 'C' or there is one of BOSS'es
>I don't know yet...hmmm

The 550C is the colour version of the 550.

                        Nick Rothwell   |   cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk
     CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance   |   cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk

------------------------------
Date:         Fri, 19 Nov 1993 09:02:56 PST
From:         metlay 
Subject:      Re: Drum machines

>Well, surprise surprise.  My r.m.s. archive seems to have survived various
>AIX crashes, failed backups and ill-advised housecleaning.  I can send
>copies to people, as long as the good Dr. Metlay gives permission.
>
>brian good

Hereby granted. Brian sent me a copy and I reread it with interest.
I have no trouble with remailing or reposting it at all, and my
opinions have not changed since it was written.

--
mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I incorporated the sound into my dreams...but I didn't wake up." (suzanne)

------------------------------
Date:         Fri, 19 Nov 1993 09:48:20 PST
From:         metlay 
Subject:      Re: Was Re: Drum Machines

Bill Fox, in an obvious attempt to coax me out of my philosophical
equivalent of a badger's set, writes:

>Dr. Mike muses:
>>                                                 ... But for what it's
>> worth, I would love to put a Procussion in my rig someday, but have
>> not gotten into rhythm/drum music enough to warrant the cost.
>
>And this from a man who is STILL trying to pare down his rig even though
>it already seems rather minimal (in quantity only!) from my vantage
>point.  D-70/Xpander/EX-8000/VS(rack!) is a GREAT *little* setup but it
>is crying out for a sampler to be complete.  A sampler would cover
>nicely for the Procussion plus it would have the advantage of being usable
>for found sounds.  (Musik Conrete in the 90s!)  My current suggestions
>would be K2000 or ASR-10, both available in rack form to keep things
>compact.

Bill, dear? How many times have I said that one of the big differences
between thee and me is that thou hast money to spend on this stuff? ;->

As a matter of fact, I AM buying a sampler, and I DO plan to add a
K2000 to my rig someday (a keyboard, since I love the feel), but
unfortunately the two are not one and the same. Until I can afford
a K2000, I'm going to be playing with something quite a bit less costly.

It is a Korg DSS-1, a machine which was unique when it came out in
1986 and remained largely unique until the introduction of the K2000.
The DSS-1 is the only sampler that was designed backwards in terms of
its architecture and user interface. While it is true that all
samplers until very recently were essentially analog synthesizers with
sampling/sample-playback oscillators, the DSS-1 was the first one
specifically designed with this paradigm in mind. It was marketed as a
Sampling Synthesizer, a synth with oscillators that happened to be
able to sample. The sampling capabilities were designed to be
secondary to the machine's power as a synth, along the same lines as
the popular DW-8000/EX-8000 series (for my pruposes, therefore, having
mastered the EX-8000, the learning curve for the DSS will be short).

The machine is a sweet little synth by any standards; it'd be a good
machine for a novice who wants to learn his way around synths and
can't afford a vintage analog or modular machine. Two oscillators per
voice, plus a noise source, mixable through a real analog VCF and VCA,
with six-stage envelopes and two onboard DDLs. It has the usual
modulation and control capabilities, plus some nifty sample
transformation stuff to liven up sounds, and the ability to store as
part of a disk's memory, not only a sample set and the associated
synth parameters (which take up only a few dozen bytes of memory per
patch), but also up to 32 single-cycle waveforms and THEIR parameters,
giving you essentially 32 DW-style synth patches with every loaded
sample. It is a 12-bit sampler, but samples can be played back at
lower resolution to deliberately ADD quantization noise to liven up
the sound, at 8, 7, or 6 (!)  bits. Wheeee....!

People who have known me for a long time know that I have come within
a written check of buying one five times in six years, and have always
balked at the last moment. The reason has always been the same; with
only 256k of onboard memory and no bulk storage, the DSS-1 is the last
of the old-style angels-on-a- pinhead samplers, requiring a lot of
acrobatics to do anything useful, and it's cost-effective to buy
something newer these days with more RAM and storage, despite a less
exciting modulation set. My mind was finally changed by the arrival of
a DSS with the incredibly rare and valuable 1-Meg memory bank and SCSI
port, which required a rebuild of the machine's main board and was not
available outside of Japan for more than a few brief months.

If this machine works as advertised when it arrives, Bill, I
anticipate a major shift in my working style, and I look forward to
experimenting with sampling everything from illegally taped telephone
conversations with Team Metlay members about their love lives, to
disgusting sound effects from the Ren and Stimpy show.

To quote Frank Zappa: "This _is_ the life."

--
mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I incorporated the sound into my dreams...but I didn't wake up." (suzanne)

------------------------------
Date:         Fri, 19 Nov 1993 17:17:00 EDT
From:         John Rossi III 
Subject:      Re: Was Re: Drum Machines

Yet another major shift in your working style.. Does this mean that you will
be revealing my true sexual identity?

John

------------------------------
Date:         Mon, 22 Nov 1993 08:19:06 PST
From:         metlay 
Subject:      Re: Was Re: Drum Machines

Il Signor Rossi writes:
>Yet another major shift in your working style.. Does this mean that you will
>be revealing my true sexual identity?

Not on THIS list, sweetie. ;->

--
mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I incorporated the sound into my dreams...but I didn't wake up." (suzanne)

------------------------------
Date:         Thu, 18 Nov 1993 15:13:11 EST
From:         Bill Fox 
Subject:      Non-Drum Rhythms

To move the gear-head thread toward a more EMUSIC-L appropriate topic;
Mike said that he doesn't need a drum machine and I think I recall Nick
saying that he uses wave sequences for his rhythmic needs.  In general,
I'd like to hear more about wave sequencing.  (I currently have nothing
that will do that.)  But, specifically, I'd like to hear what people are
doing to generate rhythms without the use of dum machines and percussion
samples.                                     ^r (Freudian slip?)
I know that Dr. Mike likes arpeggiators a lot.  Anybody have unique
arpeggiator applications?  How do you keep an arpeggiator from sounding
boring?

Bill Fox

------------------------------
Date:         Thu, 18 Nov 1993 16:06:06 EST
From:         Brian Good 
Subject:      Re: Non-Drum Rhythms

>How do you keep an arpeggiator from sounding boring?
>
> Bill Fox

Either pull the plug or put it next to a violist.

brian good

------------------------------
Date:         Fri, 19 Nov 1993 07:13:32 GMT
From:         Thomas S Wilson 
Subject:      Re: Non-Drum Rhythms

Speaking of percussion via alternate methods... Are there any good Csound
orcs for some basic drum sounds?


--

 |||    Scott Wilson              |||    "Paradise is exactly like where    |||
 . .    wilson@ee.msstate.edu     . .     you are right now, only much,     . .
  _     "office": (601)325-2220    _      MUCH better     -Laurie Anderson   _

------------------------------
Date:         Sun, 21 Nov 1993 21:17:01 +0000
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Re: Non-Drum Rhythms

>In general,
>I'd like to hear more about wave sequencing.

An oscillator waveform can be a sequence of PCM samples, each with
programmed tuning (course and fine), duration, crossfade, level. This table
can be swept and looped in various ways, the start point can be modulated,
and the progress through the table can be locked to MIDI beat sync.

The point I was making about percussion and rhythmic material is not to do
with what wave sequencing IS, but with what it is NOT. It's not a
prepackaged, dictated method of programming rhythms; it's much more
abstract. It does have its drawbacks; each wave sequence is routed to one
effects bus setting (which implies pan position and effects), for all the
wave segments for example. But it will do until I get some more tools
written in MAX.

                        Nick Rothwell   |   cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk
     CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance   |   cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk

------------------------------
Date:         Sun, 21 Nov 1993 17:32:32 -0600
From:         Arne Claassen ISE 
Subject:      Re: Non-Drum Rhythms

> An oscillator waveform can be a sequence of PCM samples, each with
> programmed tuning (course and fine), duration, crossfade, level. This table
> can be swept and looped in various ways, the start point can be modulated,
> and the progress through the table can be locked to MIDI beat sync.

How are waveseqeunces programmed? Do you record them into the wavestation
by playing, do you do it event by event through the front panel? And could you
program them by creating a Midifile and letting the Wavestation translate it
into a wavesequence? How about Mac based editors? I'm really curious about this
but if it is only through the front panel, i can see it to be a major pain.
It sounds sort of like having (excuse the comparison) mod files whose
performance parameters are set by the key you hit.

While i'm asking questions.. I remember you talking favorably about the SP/SX
combo, and i was wondering what you're opinion (if you have one) abou the
Samplecell is? Or is that just not a consideration, since it would require a
full Mac which isn't as portable as a Powerbook with a rack and SP/SX?

--
Arne F. Claassen                 |"In cows we trust | EPS Classic * D4
     | E pluribus Moo"  | Mac Centris 650
              |                  |

------------------------------
Date:         Mon, 22 Nov 1993 09:46:34 -0500
From:         Patrick Robinson 
Subject:      Re: Non-Drum Rhythms

> >I'd like to hear more about wave sequencing.
>
> each wave sequence is routed to one
> effects bus setting (which implies pan position and effects), for all the
> wave segments for example. But it will do until I get some more tools
> written in MAX.

What sort of tools?

You can sort of partially get around this by programming up, for example,
2 wave sequences, each routed to the effects differently.  The problem is
that you can't crossfade from a segment in one sequence to a segment in
the other.

-Patrick
 pgr@ramandu.ext.vt.edu

------------------------------
Date:         Sun, 28 Nov 1993 18:47:57 +0000
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Re: Non-Drum Rhythms

>>But it will do until I get some more tools
>> written in MAX.

>What sort of tools?

Don't know yet; some kind of multitimbral, multi-output wave sequence matrix.

>You can sort of partially get around this by programming up, for example,
>2 wave sequences, each routed to the effects differently.  The problem is
>that you can't crossfade from a segment in one sequence to a segment in
>the other.

You can by vector mix.

                        Nick Rothwell   |   cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk
     CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance   |   cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk

------------------------------
Date:         Sun, 28 Nov 1993 18:48:08 +0000
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Re: Non-Drum Rhythms

>How are waveseqeunces programmed? Do you record them into the wavestation
>by playing, do you do it event by event through the front panel?

Front panel.

>And could you
>program them by creating a Midifile and letting the Wavestation translate it
>into a wavesequence?

Nope, not without clever outboard software.

>How about Mac based editors?

I believe Galaxy+Editors has this, but I've never used it.

>While i'm asking questions.. I remember you talking favorably about the SP/SX
>combo, and i was wondering what you're opinion (if you have one) abou the
>Samplecell is?

I don't have one...

>Or is that just not a consideration, since it would require a
>full Mac which isn't as portable as a Powerbook with a rack and SP/SX?

Correct; I'm very much into PowerBooks running MAX, and small live rigs
(I'm using a 6U next week, plus three fader boxes, and that's it).

                        Nick Rothwell   |   cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk
     CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance   |   cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk

------------------------------
Date:         Mon, 29 Nov 1993 08:38:59 -0500
From:         Patrick Robinson 
Subject:      Re: Non-Drum Rhythms

> >You can sort of partially get around this by programming up, for example,
> >2 wave sequences, each routed to the effects differently.  The problem is
> >that you can't crossfade from a segment in one sequence to a segment in
> >the other.
>

> You can by vector mix.

Hmmm... so you can.  I hadn't thought of that.  That would require a bit
of patience, though, to match up wave sequence durations with vector
envelope times.  No?  Have you been doing this?

-Patrick

------------------------------
Date:         Tue, 23 Nov 1993 10:29:25 -0700
From:         john krikawa 
Subject:      Non-drum stuff

Arne writes:
>How are waveseqeunces programmed? Do you record them into the wavestation
>by playing, do you do it event by event through the front panel? And could you
>program them by creating a Midifile and letting the Wavestation translate it
>into a wavesequence? How about Mac based editors? I'm really curious about
>this but if it is only through the front panel, i can see it to be a major
>pain. It sounds sort of like having (excuse the comparison) mod files whose
>performance parameters are set by the key you hit.

On the wavestation, wavesequences are programmed event by event from the
front panel.  Is it pain?  It depends on what you are doing.  The WS sports
an excellent and intuitive user interface.  I don't have a software
editor for it, but Nick has indicated in the past that he prefers the
WS interface just because you don't have to futz around with SysEx transfers,
the WS LCD is right there staring you in the face and works very well.  One
problem is finding which PCM sample you are looking for. there's 515? in
the EX.  Durations are in MIDI beats.  I think that 24 gets you a quarter
note, so 12 gets an eighth and so forth.  The crossfade paramater is used
to cross from one step to the next.  I usually set it to 1 or 0 for
percussive sequences, larger numbers allow for longer crossfades which
become make the sequence less coherent as rhythmic entities.  I like to
set up two wavesequences per patch for polyrhythmic works.  You can
program 1, 2 or 4 wavesequences per patch (and up to 8 patches per
performance [program].....eat your voices out!)  You can joystick between
wavesequences if you wish, which is very useful.......
                                                      _
-john       ___                                    __/ |
___        |   |     JKrikawa@CCIT.Arizona.Edu    |    |___      ________
   \______/     \__________ Tucson, AZ ___../\./\/         \____/        \____

------------------------------
Date:         Thu, 25 Nov 1993 14:46:14 CET
From:         "Jack L." 
Subject:      Other tools (Was: Re: Drum machines)

>>  Now come on guys...no one using an drum machine ????
>>Where are these 'prof dancers' etc ?? They tap with finger
>>or what ? :)
>
>Yes, they do. I know that at least one of the most acclaimed contemporary
>dancers in Scotland runs classes and workshops without music; she snaps her
>fingers, claps, whatever. There are all sorts of reasons for doing things
>this way.
>
>I've gone through a dozen or so synthesisers in the last three or four
>years, but have never owned a drum machine and never intend to. I either
>use wave sequences, or build percussion patchers in MAX. Drum machines
>strike me as being far too compromised and committed to the pop genre
>feature-wise, and I really just don't like the sound of them (although I'm
>impressed with what Dead Can Dance achieve).
>
>                       Nick Rothwell   |   cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk
>    CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance   |   cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk


     Speaking of strange ways of doing music, I'm impressed by myself
in what a man can do. When I had two self-playing keyboards and
my both hands were full , I used my nose to hit buttons to change
voice. I won't mention using my feet to change chord (in one-finger mode)
on one keyboard and playing the other. I had to do this because one didn't
have MIDI in it.
     One other thing. When I was learning to play in a different scale
where You don't hit some white keys, I put some LEGO plastic parts under
keys, so if I even hit it it didn't play, and my finger hurted hitting
it (the keys didn't go back...)

  I wonder what else people do when machines do not have required
possibilities...anyone ??? :)


Jack L.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Latanowicz      tel/fax Pl-(0-61) 798-202
Ul.Porzeczkowa 27    Jack@plpuam11.bitnet
61-306 Poznan
 P O L A N D         "exploring life is the sense of living..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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End of the EMUSIC-L Digest
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