issue07

EMUSIC-L Digest                                      Volume 59, Issue 07

This issue's topics:
	
	Can you help me please?? (3 messages)
	Inexpensive Mixers (6 messages)
	Thanks to all of you...

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Date:         Wed, 15 Dec 1993 04:52:04 GMT
From:         Paul Trunfio 
Subject:      Can you help me please??

posted also to comp.music.

Dear friends...

This computer music business is SO confusing... I have a fun little
setup here at home and I want to upgrade.  I went to our BIG music store
in Boston (EU Wurlitzer) and they seem confused too...

Now, don't get angry with me and tell me to look in the FAQ... I
couldn't find one... AND I tried to look in Keyboard magazine and
Electronic Musician for some help but NO DICE there either.

My setup is...

Yamaha PSR-47 controller
Yamaha TG33 (16 part, 32 polyphony)
Yamaha RY10 rhythm programmer

They are hooked in through a standard 1-in 3-out MIDI interface and into
my MAC with Opcode's VISION and GALAXY PLUS.

I have a basic TECHNICS tape dec with a line in coming from the TG33
stereo outputs for recording to tape.

Here's what I'd like to do BUT I don't know how to do it...  I know I am
quite the beginner when it comes to electronic music BUT I am new to
electronics as I have usually stayed with my Baldwin baby grand piano:

1) I want better orchestral sounds (what should I look at for about
1000???  E-mu Proteus 2/orchestral???  Korg Wavestation SR???  Roland
JV-880 with the orchestral expansion board???)  I need some advice
here... I'd like to have 16 parts though...  Should I think of a
keyboard (like the E-mu Proteus MPS Plus Orchestral keyboard which has
weighted keys that I don't have on my Yamaha) or should I stick with
plain synths without the keyboard???

2) Can anyone tell me what the advantage is of getting a better MIDI
interface??? I was thinking of Opcode's STUDIO 3 or 4???   I want to
have the capability for my MAC to play MIDI to multiple machines...

3) On that note, each synth has stereo outputs... how do I send them all
simultaneously to both my power speakers and my tape dec??   Is this
what a mixer is for??? or is this what the STUDIO 3 or 4 is supposed to
do??? I notice that mixers are both with and without tape cassettes.
Should I just keep my TECHNICS recorder and get a plain mixer or get a
combination mixer/tape and get rid of my TECHNICS???

4) Can everything in #3 be accomplished by getting a PATCH BAY??? What
is a patch bay?

Anyway... I am rambling... If you are so pissed off at me for my
stupidity then can you just tell me WHERE I should go to talk to a real
live person to ask these questions???  As you can tell I NEED HELP...

Whatever help you can provide me with I would truly appreciate!!!

Best wishes to all...

Paul

_______________________________________________________________________________

Boston University                                  Paul A. Trunfio
Department of Physics &
Center for Polymer Studies                         Telephone: 617/353-9041
590 Commonwealth Avenue                            Facsimile: 617/353-3783
Boston, Massachusetts 02215
_______________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------
Date:         Wed, 15 Dec 1993 09:16:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" 
Subject:      A little help for Paul.

It has not been so long since I had all of those questions, and more, too.
There are no stupid questions.

First, the MIDI, you should go for multi-port if you want to control more
than 16 c hannels at a time.  If you are into orchestral composition or
playing, you need two ports, or maybe four.  The Emu Proteus 2 is really a
fine orchastral synth in my opinion, you might even want two of them.

The audio side is just as complex, and as interesting, as the MIDI side.
To mix two or more audio source, you do need a mixer, and a quiet one at
that.  You should be able to get a nice one for $300.  You can use the
mixer outputs to drive both your speakers and your master tape deck.  A
mixer with a built in tape deck will allow you to do multi-track recording
and mix to your own specifications.  If you mix only to your two track
deck, you won't have the opportunity to edit, delete or add a
track, However, I add that the best and quietest mixers don't come with
built in decks, so you have to decide what you are willing to settle for.

It sounds like you have a good start, a mixer and orchestral module and
multi-port MIDI adapter for  your Mac should really get you in business.

Geez, listen to me already, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about,
but I muddle through, so take all this with a mine of salt, but at least,
my setup works ... sometimes?

Dan Graham,
Gee, look at all those buttons, what happens if I push ... BANG!

------------------------------
Date:         Thu, 16 Dec 1993 00:59:59 EST
From:         Paul Pizzi 
Subject:      Can you help me please??

> 1) I want better orchestral sounds (what should I look at for about
> 1000???  E-mu Proteus 2/orchestral???  Korg Wavestation SR???  Roland
> JV-880 with the orchestral expansion board???)  I need some advice
> here...

Yes, you might go for the Proteus 2 but if you want the ultimate orchestral
sounds you'd better try to get a sampler. I know, your budget is limited
but if you can afford to spend a little more than $1500 I give you a very
good
solution:

- Get a used 16-bit sampler like the Akai S950 (around $5-600)
- Get a used Audiomedia (though Audiomedia 2 would be far better) board for
the
  mac (around $900)
- Get "Deck" 2.0 for the mac ($200)

Of course I'm assuming you have a nu-bus capable mac.

You can load sounds into your Akai and then lay a digital audio track onto
"Deck".
Your sampler is now ready for another full load to go on another track.
You can record up to 4 tracks and play a fifth load of samples live into your
tape deck. It's like having 5 Akais...

> 2) Can anyone tell me what the advantage is of getting a better MIDI
interface???

With my idea you wouldn't need a sophisticated midi interface, a 1-in-1-out
50-buck
tiny box would do just fine.

> 3) On that note, each synth has stereo outputs... how do I send them all
> simultaneously to both my power speakers and my tape dec??   Is this what a
mixer
> is for???

Exactly. Plan to spend at least $6-700 for a decent one (Alesis 1622 or
Mackies are
the best in that range)


> I notice that mixers are both with and without tape cassettes. Should I
just keep
> my TECHNICS recorder and get a plain mixer or get a combination mixer/tape
and
> get rid of my TECHNICS???

Any stereo line output would be fine for your deck, even if the mixer doesn't
boast
a specific "tape output" (but most do...) Forget mixer/multitracker
combinations,
usually they're a bad compromise.


> 4) Can everything in #3 be accomplished by getting a PATCH BAY??? What is a
patch
>  bay?

Nope! A patch bay is just a switcher, a router. Say for example you have 16
inputs
in your mixer and 24 outputs from your instruments but you never use them all
at
the same time. A patch bay allows you to connect 16 of them into your mixer
without
disconnecting any jack and fumbling with cables.


Good luck!



PAUL




=========================================
*    *                             *    *
*    *        PAOLO PIZZI          *    *
*    *   Time Elapsed Art Music    *    *
*    *    Los Angeles - U.S.A.     *    *
*    *                             *    *
*    *-----------------------------*    *
*    *                             *    *
*    *          email:             *    *
*    *       pizzip@aol.com        *    *
*    *      pizzi@delphi.com       *    *
*    *  72772.234@compuserve.com   *    *
*    *                             *    *
=========================================

- Patria est ubicumque est bene (Pacuvius)

------------------------------
Date:         Tue, 7 Dec 1993 08:28:00 EST
From:         Robert C Graham Jr 
Subject:      Inexpensive Mixers

I am in the middle of a decision on the purchase of a mixer I need to make
shortly.  I appreciate any help any of you can give me.  I am trying to
decide between the Mackie 1202 7 channel mixer and the MIDI Mixer 7 by
MOTU.  The MIDI Mixer 7 seems to do all the Mackie can and more, with the
plus of being MIDI controlled.  However, I heard that the sound quality
is not there compared to the Mackie.  If there is a significant difference
between the two in sound quality, I would rather go with the mixer that has
the better fidelity.  I can puchase a used MIDI Mixer 7 for $300, and a used
Macke 1202 for $240.  Any suggestions?

Thanks!

RCG

------------------------------
Date:         Tue, 7 Dec 1993 08:12:36 -0600
From:         Arne Claassen ISE 
Subject:      Re: Inexpensive Mixers

> I am in the middle of a decision on the purchase of a mixer I need to make
> shortly.  I appreciate any help any of you can give me.  I am trying to
> decide between the Mackie 1202 7 channel mixer and the MIDI Mixer 7 by
> MOTU.  The MIDI Mixer 7 seems to do all the Mackie can and more, with the
> plus of being MIDI controlled.  However, I heard that the sound quality
> is not there compared to the Mackie.  If there is a significant difference
> between the two in sound quality, I would rather go with the mixer that has
> the better fidelity.  I can puchase a used MIDI Mixer 7 for $300, and a used
> Macke 1202 for $240.  Any suggestions?

As the owner of a 1202 i can only recommend it for its superb sonic qualities.
I'm not familiar with the MOTU device though. Another thing, the 1202 is a
12 channel not 7 channel mixer. 4 mono ins and 4 stereo ins. I love it,
especially for the $300 i paid for it new.

--
Arne F. Claassen                 |"In cows we trust | EPS Classic * D4
     | E pluribus Moo"  | Mac Centris 650
              |                  |

------------------------------
Date:         Tue, 7 Dec 1993 16:10:01 GMT
From:         Philip Jones 
Subject:      Re: Inxepensive MIxers

Hi Robert

You wrote >
I am in the middle of a decision on the purchase of a mixer I need to make
shortly.  I appreciate any help any of you can give me.  I am trying to
decide between the Mackie 1202 7 channel mixer and the MIDI Mixer 7 by
MOTU.  The MIDI Mixer 7 seems to do all the Mackie can and more, with the
plus of being MIDI controlled.  However, I heard that the sound quality
is not there compared to the Mackie.  If there is a significant difference
between the two in sound quality, I would rather go with the mixer that has
the better fidelity.  I can puchase a used MIDI Mixer 7 for $300, and a used
Macke 1202 for $240.  Any suggestions?
>

Well, I suggest you check out the Spirit Folio 10 to 2. The sound quality is
absolutely excellent. I have been using this mixer for around four months now,
to mix all my synth modules. I have the 10 to 2 version which has 6 balanced
inputs with mic/line gain control. Each channel has two effects sends, one of
which can be pre or post, three band equaliser with swept mid band and 50Hz
cut off switch if the input is suffering from rumble (ie mics on stage). The
last four channels are combined into two stereo faders with the same controls
except for no swept mid and only unbalanced line inputs. Each channel can be
prefaded which for me is a major plus when working live. Also each effects
send/return can be PFl'd. All in all the mixer is worth a look its only major
omission is the lack of insert points on each channel. There is only a pair of
insert points for the stereo mix out.

Hope this has helped,

Phil Jones (pj02@ee.ic.ac.uk)

------------------------------
Date:         Tue, 7 Dec 1993 13:05:43 -800
From:         Mark Hartshorn 
Subject:      Re: Inexpensive Mixers

Hi Rob,
        I bought a Mackie 1202 new for $320 with rack plates. I've been
happier with it than any other mixer I've worked with. I would highly
recomend it.
        Mark

On Tue, 7 Dec 1993, Robert C Graham Jr wrote:

> I am in the middle of a decision on the purchase of a mixer I need to make
> shortly.  I appreciate any help any of you can give me.  I am trying to
> decide between the Mackie 1202 7 channel mixer and the MIDI Mixer 7 by
> MOTU.  The MIDI Mixer 7 seems to do all the Mackie can and more, with the
> plus of being MIDI controlled.  However, I heard that the sound quality
> is not there compared to the Mackie.  If there is a significant difference
> between the two in sound quality, I would rather go with the mixer that has
> the better fidelity.  I can puchase a used MIDI Mixer 7 for $300, and a used
> Macke 1202 for $240.  Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks!
>
> RCG

------------------------------
Date:         Tue, 7 Dec 1993 18:35:07 -0500
From:         not Robert 
Subject:      Re: Inexpensive Mixers

there is no doubt anywhere in the universe: you cannot get a better
sounding mixer for twice the price than that Mackie 1202 and 1604... more
features (i.e., alesis 1622, tascam boards) but nothing is as clean... if
you're just a hobbyist, it doesn't really matter -- it's not like the
mixer 7s sounds bad -- very cool actually, but if you are imminently
making digital recordings (i.e., DAT) then you should get the Mackie -- if
it's analog recordings, it doesn't really matter...

ps
  soundcraft has a similarly priced mixer to the 1202 that sounds almost
as good and has a mid eq i believe; something sorely lacking in the 1202..

pps
  i have a 1202 and used a 1604 all summer... previously used a cool
tascam 16 channel with lots of routing and sweepable mid-eq -- 2 things i
missed a great deal on the 1604... oh well...

i guess the conclusion is: get whichever one you like, but realize the
differences first 'cuz none of the ones you're considering suck -- hell,
the cheap alesis 1622 is really neat if you find it used/cheap... (oh,
differences, like, you can drop the mackie.. irrelevant if you keep the
setup at home, ya know?)
--

------------------------------
Date:         Wed, 8 Dec 1993 12:55:35 +0800
From:         Chia Poh Hwa Andy 
Subject:      Re: Inxepensive MIxers

Why not check out the Boss ??? . Can't remember the model. It's a
6-channel mono mixer. I thought it was good for homw use. Got it for just
$200 (new).

Andy

------------------------------
Date:         Fri, 17 Dec 1993 20:17:24 GMT
From:         Paul Trunfio 
Subject:      Thanks to all of you...

Dear friends...

I wanted to thank all of you for your advice to me regarding orchestral
synths and mixing.

Here's what I decided after trying out several synths at our big music
store in Boston...

I decided to stay simple. Not because of money BUT because I don't want
to get overwhelmed with stuff. Not many bells or whistles because I feel
that it distracts the good composer from actually making music.  Having
all sorts of fancy synths and other toys aren't as important to me as
the art of making music.

So, here's what I am getting:

                   E-mu PROTEUS 2 XR / Orchestral (750 + 350 for the XR)
                   Mackie 1202 mixer (350)

the above is in addition to my Yamaha PSR510M controller, Yamaha TG33
which I like a lot because it's nice and large and has good sounds, and
my RY10 for rhythms.

Thanks for all your help folks...

..Paul  :)

PS:

Once I feel comfortable with all that, I have an upgrade plan (which I
will share with you all):

1) I do a lot of REAL piano work.  So I will get a controller/synth with
weighted keys and excellent piano sounds... I liked the KORG C-56-M.

2) Something similar to the K2000 or ASR10.

3) A good audio recorder to replace my TECHNICS.

4) Eventually, I will need more than 16 ch. so I will get a STUDIO 5.

This last item deals with something we are doing for work and I will do
around the summer probably...

5) I will be needed to do hard disk recording for something I am working
on for a Boston Museum of Science exhibit but I don't need it now.  We
are doing digital video (with all the fixin's) but I need digital audio
also.  So this will come a little later.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Boston University                                  Dr. Paul A. Trunfio
Center for Polymer Studies &
Science & Mathematics Education Center             Telephone: 617/353-9041
590 Commonwealth Avenue                            Facsimile: 617/353-3783
Boston, Massachusetts 02215
_______________________________________________________________________________

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