issue09

EMUSIC-L Digest                                      Volume 61, Issue 09

This issue's topics:
	
	48 minutes worth of dynamic new age music.
	48 plus minutes of dynamic newage music (2 messages)
	For Sale CM-32 Roland
	FOR SALE!
	PEAVEY DPM3 KEYBOARD FOR SALE! (3 messages)
	Ren, Stimpy, and Fiorella Terenzi: the 3 Stooges of the 90s (4 messages)
	Sampling CD's (2 messages)
	Self-defense and why that's not it (was Re: Sampling CD's)

Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon .
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Date:         Fri, 4 Feb 1994 19:02:51 -0500
From:         "Joseph D. McMahon" 
Subject:      Re: 48 minutes worth of dynamic new age music.

Heaven help us. It must just be a phase we're going through right now.

PLEASE. NO ADS. PLEASE. Sigh.

Announcing that you can be contacted for infomation is OK. But please
don't mention prices and such. Just say it exists. Let us decide whether to
pursue it further.

 --- Joe M.

------------------------------
Date:         Mon, 21 Feb 1994 13:57:30 -0500
From:         DEMOLITION MAN 
Subject:      Re: 48 plus minutes of dynamic newage music

How many times are we going to go through the no-price-posting gig?

-Phil

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Date:         Tue, 22 Feb 1994 09:52:33 -0500
From:         Joe McMahon 
Subject:      Re: 48 plus minutes of dynamic newage music

>How many times are we going to go through the no-price-posting gig?
>
>-Phil

Forever. Part of the problem is that we have a gateway to Usenet, which
means that a fairly large percentage of readers can simply cross-post to
our list without ever bothering to read it. Apparently this guy doesn't,
because this is the second time for him.

Guess it's postmaster time.

 --- Joe M.

------------------------------
Date:         Fri, 4 Feb 1994 17:31:56 -0500
From:         "Joseph D. McMahon" 
Subject:      Re: For Sale CM-32 Roland

>
> For Sale Roland CM-32  Mint Cond. Used twice.
>
Certainly have been a lot of ads lately, haven't there?

Please don't post these here. Use SYNTH-L, or desist altogether.

 --- Joe M.

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Date:         Sat, 5 Feb 1994 11:53:05 -0500
From:         William Matthews 
Subject:      Re: FOR SALE!

For sale, one (1) Joseph McMahon, CHEAP!  Currently has several blown
gaskets that need repair, but runs good and is great for gigs.  New owner
must treat well, on account of he's utterly indispensable.  Many miles of
worthy service left!

gratefully,

Bill M.
EMUSIC-L subscriber

------------------------------
Date:         Sat, 5 Feb 1994 09:43:09 -0500
From:         "Joseph D. McMahon" 
Subject:      Re: PEAVEY DPM3 KEYBOARD FOR SALE!

Clayton L Workman writes:
>
> *** !! FOR SALE !! ***
>
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!

There. Now I feel better.

Look, folks, I have repeated it I don't know how many times.
Quit it with the ADS!!

If this keeps up I'm going to have the Usenet link *removed* and
change the list over so only persons subscribed to it may post.

Am I understood?

 --- Joe M.

------------------------------
Date:         Sun, 6 Feb 1994 18:59:33 -0600
From:         Arne Claassen ISE 
Subject:      Re: PEAVEY DPM3 KEYBOARD FOR SALE!

PLEASE NOTICE: OBVIOUS waste of BANDWIDTH...

I had to do this... Lately this posting ads to emusic-l is getting to be
a disease. We almost an ad a day and of course there follows the polite,
but slowly getting strained voice of Joe asking people not to post ads
which seems to be followed by an ad almost a message later. Do people edit
anything that Joe sends out of their box, or why does this just keep
continuing.
Not really a soapbox stand on my part, just getting amused with this pattern.

--
Arne F. Claassen                 |"In cows we trust | EPS Classic * D4
     | E pluribus Moo"  | Mac Centris 650
              |                  |

------------------------------
Date:         Sun, 6 Feb 1994 20:39:45 -0500
From:         "Joseph D. McMahon" 
Subject:      Re: PEAVEY DPM3 KEYBOARD FOR SALE!

>                                                         ... Do people edit
> anything that Joe sends out of their box, or why does this just keep
> continuing.
> Not really a soapbox stand on my part, just getting amused with this pattern.
>
It's all so clear to me now, Guido. I'm the keeper of the cheese ... and
you're the lemon merchant ... AH HA HAHAHAHAAAAA !!!

Ahem. Sorry. :-)

 --- Joe M.

ps. Have they released the marmosets?

------------------------------
Date:         Tue, 8 Feb 1994 08:42:57 -0800
From:         metlay 
Subject:      Ren, Stimpy, and Fiorella Terenzi: the 3 Stooges of the 90s

>It's all so clear to me now, Guido. I'm the keeper of the cheese ... and
>you're the lemon merchant ... AH HA HAHAHAHAAAAA !!!

...and HE KNOWS IT.....that's why he's trying to KILL US!!

>Ahem. Sorry. :-)

Yeah, I'll bet.

>ps. Have they released the marmosets?

Not yet. But don't worry, little missy, I'll save you.

ObligatorySynthesisContent (ObSynth for short, bearing no relation to
the OBXa, OB8, OB8k, or OBMx): I'm too tired to rise to the bait of
the recent mention of space-radiation music right now. I will simply
state that I regarded it as an experimental curiosity of no lasting
artistic value, and if history lumps me in with the teacher who told
Albert Einstein he'd never amount to anything, so be it. (I won't care,
I'll be dead.) It seemed to open no doors that would have otherwise
remained closed.

--
mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Go home, grab a beer, kiss the wife and SAMPLE THE DOG!"      (j. krikawa)
"Hate beer, selling the sampler. But the kissing part worked OK."  (metlay)

------------------------------
Date:         Tue, 8 Feb 1994 16:15:30 -0700
From:         jk 
Subject:      Re: Ren, Stimpy, and Fiorella Terenzi: the 3 Stooges of the 90s

metlay :
>ObligatorySynthesisContent (ObSynth for short, bearing no relation to
>the OBXa, OB8, OB8k, or OBMx): I'm too tired to rise to the bait of
>the recent mention of space-radiation music right now. I will simply
>state that I regarded it as an experimental curiosity of no lasting
>artistic value, and if history lumps me in with the teacher who told
>Albert Einstein he'd never amount to anything, so be it. (I won't care,
>I'll be dead.)
>It seemed to open no doors that would have otherwise remained closed.

Indeed, I feel this to be true also.  However, if someone presented me
with a composition and said "so-and-so derived this piece from escape
values of the julia set centered about -1.5+.7i [a fractal]" I would
be compelled (obligatorily) to say "cool".  If it was a 'musical' piece
that moved me in some way......"Very Cool".  I think the processes which
go into such pieces are important and have tangible consequence in the
final piece [I assume that the process is refined by the composer through
manual/algorithmic manipulation.....I could never feel comfortable with a
fractal song, for example, if I just ran it, saved and dumped it to CD]

This all vaguely reminds me of the conversations on academic music last
summer......OK they weren't conversations.......Harrington's words
ripped like flesh on our dull monitors.......
We Know.  We Care.  We Need Musicality.

                                                      _
-john       ___                                    __/ |
___        |   |     JKrikawa@CCIT.Arizona.Edu    |    |___      ________
   \______/     \__________ Tucson, AZ ___../\./\/         \____/        \____

------------------------------
Date:         Thu, 10 Feb 1994 10:12:21 +0000
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Re: Ren, Stimpy, and Fiorella Terenzi: the 3 Stooges of the 90s

Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk!

>I'm too tired to rise to the bait of
>the recent mention of space-radiation music right now.

Robert Schroeder did a pretty fine job with his GALAXIE CYGNUS-A album back
in the early 80's. But then, the only bit of space radiation was some white
noise which ended up as a few seconds of the record, between tracks.

Well, if radiation music gets trendy and the record companies come begging,
perhaps Team Metlay can assemble and truck off to Atomic City for a couple
of months, rad. suits and portable DAT's in hand, and come up with
something.

Keep an eye open for the wasps though.


                        Nick Rothwell   |   cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk
     CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance   |   cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk

------------------------------
Date:         Sun, 13 Feb 1994 15:27:02 -0800
From:         metlay 
Subject:      Re: Ren, Stimpy, and Fiorella Terenzi: the 3 Stooges of the 90s

>Well, if radiation music gets trendy and the record companies come begging,
>perhaps Team Metlay can assemble and truck off to Atomic City for a couple
>of months, rad. suits and portable DAT's in hand, and come up with
>something.
>
>Keep an eye open for the wasps though.

*sigh* For those of you who are wondering just what the HELL our esteemed
Dr. Rothwell is talking about, I recommend going to your local comics store
and buying a copy of SAVAGE HENRY #30, in which the editorial column has
a letter from me and a concise but glowing review of the Team's CD. SH is
a way-cool comic: science fiction featuring not only fictional characters
but also real musicians (at one time or another, there have been plots
involving Wire, the Residents, Nash the Slash, Michael Chocholak, Steve
Roach, Klaus Schulze, Hawkwind, and others, and Conrad Schnitzler is a
regular character). At this time there are no plans to put the Team in
the comic...at least, none that I know of....


--
mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Go home, grab a beer, kiss the wife and SAMPLE THE DOG!"      (j. krikawa)
"Hate beer, selling the sampler. But the kissing part worked OK."  (metlay)

------------------------------
Date:         Sat, 26 Feb 1994 14:53:20 -0500
From:         "Joseph D. McMahon" 
Subject:      Re: Sampling CD's

Usenet apparently means never having to pay attention to anything.

NO ADS HERE. PLEASE. This is getting to be way too much. I hate doing this
because it makes me look like an anal-retentive jerk, but I really want
EMUSIC-L to be a forum for discussion, not a bazaar full of yammering
salespersons.

Take it to synth-l@auvm.american.edu, or rec.music.makers.synth, or something.
Thank you.

New policy: abusive private mail to me about how this list is run will be
forwarded to the list so everyone can see you're a jerk if you send it. Sigh.

 --- Joe M. (listowner)

------------------------------
Date:         Mon, 28 Feb 1994 17:33:46 -0500
From:         Alper Kerman 
Subject:      Re: Sampling CD's

> Usenet apparently means never having to pay attention to anything.
>
> NO ADS HERE. PLEASE. This is getting to be way too much. I hate doing this
> because it makes me look like an anal-retentive jerk, but I really want
> EMUSIC-L to be a forum for discussion, not a bazaar full of yammering
> salespersons.
>
> Take it to synth-l@auvm.american.edu, or rec.music.makers.synth, or something.
> Thank you.
>
> New policy: abusive private mail to me about how this list is run will be
> forwarded to the list so everyone can see you're a jerk if you send it. Sigh.
>
>  --- Joe M. (listowner)
>


Joe,

This amazes me!...I've seen you post zillions of notices like this
(most were nicely put ones too, I might add!), and these people
still yet to learn!...Sighhh!....

I don't mean to come a cross as the "GUIDO" type as reaching out
on your defense, but I have a suggestion.  An idea just popped into
my mind, and thought I let you and the concerned people on the list
know (perhaps for an open discussion?).

Since its gotten to this level (you receiving abusive private mail),
why not make these criminal souls face some sort of penalty?  And
you're probably saying "How?..."

Well,  I was thinking;

How about writing few lines of code, that will automatically post
100s of mail (amount would be up to your discretion) to these
clowns' mail boxes as soon as they commit the sin!...Of course,
that would require some up-keeping on your part.  Perhaps you
could make it, so that the subject lines would actually hold
some legitimate subject titles from EMUSIC-L, and the body would say
something like "PLEASE DO NOT POST ANY ADS ON THIS LIST!..."
"Bla, bla, bla,.."...whatever you would find appropriate!...
Or mailing old (from archives) EMUSIC-L mail messages with
corresponding subject titles, etc.

I think filling up their mail boxes with this sort of mail,
and having them actually go thru the pain of sorting them out
is a great penalty!...Of course, I have not considered the
consequences of this action, as I will let that to be open for
discussion (that is, if its okay by the list owner?...)

I'm not trying to be mean here, but one can only tolerate
so much!...It's just an idea anyway!...If the idea is too
severe, then I apologize.  Also, I hope I'm not going to make
some people on the list angry with this post.  Its just that
there is a problem, and I thought I suggest A solution (eventhough
I wasn't asked for one.)

                                Take care,
                                The Young Turk

------------------------------
Date:         Mon, 28 Feb 1994 19:36:24 -0500
From:         Joe McMahon 
Subject:      Self-defense and why that's not it (was Re: Sampling CD's)

>How about writing few lines of code, that will automatically post
>100s of mail (amount would be up to your discretion) to these
>clowns' mail boxes as soon as they commit the sin!...Of course,
>that would require some up-keeping on your part.  Perhaps you
>could make it, so that the subject lines would actually hold
>some legitimate subject titles from EMUSIC-L, and the body would say
>something like "PLEASE DO NOT POST ANY ADS ON THIS LIST!..."
>"Bla, bla, bla,.."...whatever you would find appropriate!...
>Or mailing old (from archives) EMUSIC-L mail messages with
>corresponding subject titles, etc.

I know this is well-meant, and I'm replying here for the sake of those who
might think it was a good way to "take care of" someone abusing them.
Please understand that this is meant as grandfatherly advice from the Net's
logical equivalent of an Old Fart. :-)

>>>Doing things like this is a very bad idea.<<<

It makes the system administrators on the receiving systems want to kill
you. It screws up mail for everyone on their system - in securty parlance,
it's called a "denial of service attack" and could get you arrested, fined,
and sent to jail on a felony charge, let alone fired or expelled and
bounced off the net!

When you send hundreds of pieces of mail, the mail space on the receiving
system for *everybody* fills up. The VIPs start calling up and breathing
down the necks of the systems people, demanding to know why they're not
getting mail. The system admin starts looking for somebody to blame. The
mail-bomber is It, and gets in *really* big trouble. No no no. Baaaad idea.


Never, ever, piss off a systems administrator.

Trust me. I'm a system administrator myself. If someone did this on my
system, they would be in Deep Yogurt. NASA *prosecutes* this kind of stuff.
I wouldn't care to lose my job and go to jail over an ad on a mailing list.

In the case of the abusive poster, I simply forwarded the mail to the
appropriate folks at his site (the postmaster, who is always
postermaster@where-ever.it.is). That should take care of it. I informed the
list about his letter to me only because I thought he deserved to be
sabotaged for being nasty.

To outline how I approach undesirable mail on this list (just in case
anyone ever needs to do something similar - say you're getting junk mail or
chain letters or abuse from someone):

1) Person A posts an ad, significantly nasty personal flame, etc - an
objectionable letter by EMUSIC-L (and my) standards. I follow up to him/her
and to the list and ask politely (or as politely as current blood pressure
levels allow) that this not be repeated. In the case of a flame, I will
usually request that an apology be made privately only. Other times when I
have something to say on the topic, I will simply follow up the original
letter, pointedly noting that I find it possible to do so without flaming.

If no more objectionable material shows up, I let it be.

2) Person A posts another unacceptable message. I follow up again,
privately, reminding them that I asked them not to do this once already and
cc'ing their postmaster. Any nasty or abusive mail in return is simply
quoted in full and forwarded to the postmaster as well. This usually stops
it.

Terrorism, whether physical or electronic, is never a solution; this type
of "mail bombing" is exactly that. I like to think that I give everybody at
least one chance to screw up and that I always give them a chance to admit
it and apologize. Had I gotten an apology, I probably would have just
forgotten about the whole thing.

We really don't get that many ads, as things go, It's just that I have to
stay on top of them because allowing them to be posted unchallenged starts
you down the slippery slope of "well, you let him/her post an ad and didn't
complain, so why can't I?".

I appreciate your trying to come up with a way to help me out, but that's
not one that's good to use if one wants to stay on the Net. And I do!

 --- Joe M.

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End of the EMUSIC-L Digest
******************************