9602a

=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:38:28 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Alex Kharlamov 
Subject:      Re: Cubase

>Does anyone of you maillist subscribers out there know if there's a
>possibility to put samples into Cubase arrangements and play them within
>the arrangement?
>I'm using Cubase version 2.60 for Win3.1.

Cubase [Score?] ver 2.0 or above (CD version with waveplayer) does it.  You
can order it directly from Steinberg for about $150.

AlexK
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:58:52 GMT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "J. Rossi" 
Subject:      Amiga and DOS format

Hi,

I'm going to use an Amiga to hook my X3 tp for a while so that
my Mac can get repaired.

The question is: how do you read DOS formatted disks on that beast ?
Can it be both DD and HD ?  Is there a shareware/freeware I can use ?
What site would have it ?

TIA

Francois Rossi
jr10@le.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:27:08 EST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "william.b.fox" 
Subject:      Re: The music I like is....

In response to a thread that started on SYNTH-L, Harry said to David:
> I first heard of _Nightnoise_ on ATC, and purchased an album based on that.
> BTW, the record store had cubbyholed them under "New Age" along with Eno
> and Shadowfax.  Not a very accurate appelation in my opinion.  Just what
> the Hell is this "new age" I've been hearing about, anyway????  When is it
> coming?  Is it here?  If it is, am I expected to listen to that genre, as
> amorphous as it seems to be?  Anyone who puts Eno/Cale near friggin' George
> Winston in the record store should be forced to listen to each,
> simultaneously, one in each ear, until they scream "Gaia!!" googol times!

(Sounds like this conversation could spill over onto space-music, too!)
Just this week, I asked a local shop keeper what the chances would be of
separating space music out from the new age bin into its own category.
Basically, he doesn't want to waste the space on such a narrow category.
New Age seems to be the catch-all category for stuff that isn't rock,
R&B, gospel, country, classical, jazz, techno (dance), pop, soundtracks
& broadway, comedy, and used.  It's sort of a pet peeve with me that I
have to look for electronic music in the new age bin but at least I know
where to look.  Unfortunately, shop owners have non-musical influences
that make them do crazy things.  So do I, as a matter of fact.  I spend
one third of my life at a job that butters my bread and pays for
music-stuff instead of spending that amount of time to use music-stuff.
Go figure!  ;-}

Bill Fox        wbf@aloft.att.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:36:35 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         David John Rosborough 
Subject:      Re: FW: Removable media for HD recording (old thread)
In-Reply-To:  <01BAEFDF.03DBEC80@ou90611.90.deere.com> from "Brian C. Czernik"
              at Jan 31, 96 01:21:19 pm

> While Syqu*st might guarantee disks for xx amount of time, I was told tha=
> t the disks (for the *Z drive and the old Syqu*sts--44,88,105, 250mb) are=
>  actually rejected REAL hard drives (although I can't confirm that). It w=
> ould be consistent with my understanding of the technology. That would me=

Well, if they are, then they are remarkably reliable rejects...  I've had
an old 44MB Syquest for years, with loads of cartridges... In all the
years I've had it, I've only had one disk die, and that's because I tried
to eject it before it spun down... and more than once, too!  I've NEVER
had a problem with data reliability.

I seriously doubt that this rumour is really true...

TTYL

DaveR
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:33:24 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Aaron Gore 
Subject:      UNSUBSCRIBE ME

******************************************************************************
***********************UNSUBSCRIBE ME FROM THE LIST
PLEASE!************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:39:15 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Rik Kwan.  Hello- I'm a beginning MIDI/electronic"
              
Subject:      remove from list

Please remove me from your mailing list.
Thank you.

Rikkwan@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:12:02 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Kalle Salminen 
Subject:      unsubscribe

Please remove me from the list.
(unsubscribe Kalle Salminen mesaka@tit.fi)
K.S.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:28:05 PDT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Fred MoTTe 
Subject:      Re: Amiga and DOS format

>I'm going to use an Amiga to hook my X3 tp for a while so that
>my Mac can get repaired.

>The question is: how do you read DOS formatted disks on that beast ?
>Can it be both DD and HD ?  Is there a shareware/freeware I can use ?
>What site would have it ?

It depends what kind of Amiga you'll be using. With an Amiga 500 with OS under
2.0, you'll have to use a specific program like Crossdos, or Multidos (should be
available on any aminet site). With an Amiga 600, 1200, 3000 or 4000, MSDOS disk
format is included in the system. You just have to mount it ( mount PC0: ).
Not that only the 4000 will allow you to read HD disks.

Fred.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:47:20 EST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Edward Plant 
Subject:      Re: FW: Removable media for HD recording (old thread)

>> While Syqu*st might guarantee disks for xx amount of time, I was told tha=
>> t the disks (for the *Z drive and the old Syqu*sts--44,88,105, 250mb) are=
>>  actually rejected REAL hard drives (although I can't confirm that). It w=
>> ould be consistent with my understanding of the technology. That would me=
>
>Well, if they are, then they are remarkably reliable rejects...  I've had
>an old 44MB Syquest for years, with loads of cartridges... In all the
>years I've had it, I've only had one disk die, and that's because I tried
>to eject it before it spun down... and more than once, too!  I've NEVER
>had a problem with data reliability.
>
>I seriously doubt that this rumour is really true...
>

Just to show there is always another side to any story....

My personal experience with Syquest cartridges goes back about 6 years and
is not good. In my business we deal with removeable media frequently for
storing sensitive information that has to be locked up in a safe at night.
On jobs I worked on from about 1990 through 1994, I was going through one
44MB (I think) Syquest cartridge about every two months. It would just be a
case where the cartridge would decide not to spin up one morning, forever.
Everyone had their own theory on why they crashed so often, and of course
some really interesting ideas on how to take care of them, like never
turning it sideways when you carried it down the hall... but the one thing
we all did was make backups religiously of important files to floppies!

Now, in fairness, we used these cartridges as primary storage media on a
daily basis, and they were removed and handled frequently. This is probably
not the way they are best used.

Edward
egp@ideas.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:32:08 -0600
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Brian C. Czernik" 
Subject:      Re: FW: Removable media for HD recording (old thread)

Actually, it isn't a rumor. I read in MacWeek that, in fact, EZ Drives do=
 use rejected hard drives. That doesn't mean there bad, just not up to ha=
rd drive expectations (SONY sells its inferior 1.4M disks to other compan=
ies sell them under other brands). I am not sure whether the same is true=
 with the old 44/88M disks though.

----------
From:   David John Rosborough[SMTP:drosboro@SFU.CA]
Sent:   Thursday, February 01, 1996 10:36 AM
To:     Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L
Subject:        Re: FW: Removable media for HD recording (old thread)

> While Syqu*st might guarantee disks for xx amount of time, I was told t=
ha=3D
> t the disks (for the *Z drive and the old Syqu*sts--44,88,105, 250mb) a=
re=3D
>  actually rejected REAL hard drives (although I can't confirm that). It=
 w=3D
> ould be consistent with my understanding of the technology. That would =
me=3D

Well, if they are, then they are remarkably reliable rejects...  I've had=

an old 44MB Syquest for years, with loads of cartridges... In all the
years I've had it, I've only had one disk die, and that's because I tried=

to eject it before it spun down... and more than once, too!  I've NEVER
had a problem with data reliability.

I seriously doubt that this rumour is really true...

TTYL

DaveR
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:00:27 -0600
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Dale E Newton 
Subject:      Amiga and DOS format
In-Reply-To:  <199602020600.BAA56741@atlanta.american.edu> (message from
              Automatic digest processor on Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:00:30 -0500)

> The question is: how do you read DOS formatted disks on that beast [Amiga]?
> Can it be both DD and HD ?  Is there a shareware/freeware I can use ?

If you run AmigaDOS 2.* or later, yes, you can read/write/format MSDOS
formatted disks with the included CrossDOS utility.  It will read both
DD and HD disks.  If you are serious about running MSDOS on the Amiga
there are two very solid PC emulations, PC-Task and e586dx for the
Emplant card.  These are "fully" compatible PC emulations.  The
Emplant card will also provide full Mac emulation(s) as well.

As for accessing the most comprehensive PD software for the Amiga,
check wuarchive.wustl.edu:/pub/aminet.

Good luck.

* Dale E. Newton              newton@stolaf.edu    *
* 2636 Fremont Ave. S. #105                        *
* Minneapolis, MN 55408      (612)374-4160 (voice) *
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:48:57 EST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Jesse Lackey 
Subject:      this may be a dumb MIDI question...

...but I thought I'd ask it anyway.  :^)
I know next to nothing about midi, but a friend of mine with a borrowed
very nice keyboard (K2000 I think) and I want to compose some techno/ambient
stuff.  We also have an ancient sampler, but without much memory.  I have a
486/100 w/win95, 16Mb, and one of those midi-to-gameport boxes (never used).

o.k. now here's the question. (finally!)
Is it possible to use the PC as a sample-playback box.  i.e. a note message
comes in via MIDI, and that triggers the playing of an already-loaded .wav
file thru my soundblaster (or za-1 spdif card).  Seems like that would be
pretty easy to do.  Perfoming stuff like variable-volume and variable-speed
playback, and more than 2 simultaneously would certainly be tricky.  Ignore
that for now.

The way I see it, on a 16Mb machine I should have 8-10Mb avail for samples
(~5Mb for win95, 1 Mb for the disk cacher - I set it to be 1Mb only, and
~1Mb for the program+soundcard buffers).  I could get two samples playing
simultaneously (one on L channel, one on on R) or a single stereo sample.
And it would be supercheap - I have all the hw I need already.

With say 8Mb free, that's 102 seconds of mono-16bit-44.1Khz audio.  Perfect
for having a small number of longish samples.


Does sw to do this exist?  I am actually thinking of writing something, I
have written a waveIn -> harddisk recorder that works great, so I'm somewhat
familiar with manipulating soundcards.  But I don't know anything about the
MIDI stuff and would rather just get something already out there.

Thanks in advance for any info!
Jesse
--
jesse lackey - jesse@eye.com - 3d/eye, ithaca, ny  |  I don't speak for 3d/eye!
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Feb 1996 10:54:21 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         David Rodger 
Subject:      Re: Re[2]: what kind of music I like

Hi Harry,
a few thoughts about cubbyholing...

> Another reason I haven't [sent demos to RCA or Warner Bros.] is that I'm
> scared poopyless.  I don't own a digital multitrack, just a Yamaha MT-120,

Since when did music technology ultimately determine artstic worth?
Sorry, stupid question.  The answer is frequently, anmd I doubt very much
whether RCA or WB, at least as corporate entities, are very interested in
artistic worth!

> >(1) Helps the listener to remember it by association;
>
> Hmm. That is true when looking in a record store for a particular album,
> but not always. [...]
> The problem seems to be one of the size of the cubbyhole imposed by
> whoever is in charge of such things.

Sure.  Well I never claimed that everybody cubbyholes in the most appropriate
or insightful way.  But people make (and have) associations of different
kinds, some of which might not occur to us.  That includes record store
merchandisers.  Maybe in a particular record store frequented by people
who wouldn't know much about particular musics (one catering to a specific
clientele), it makles sense to put Nightnoise next to George Winston (or
what ever combination you were bemoaning).  I don't agree with _this_
cubbyhopling either.  I suspect that record store people, like record
companies, make such mistakes because they don't listen to the music!

> I picked up a so-called "Ambient Compilation" CD the other day

Well, as you say...

> Music, like language, evolves

Well, language evolves.   Actually, in this case, i think it's a case of the
dance music folks adopting a term without thiking about it or its previous
musical associations (and perhaps they wouldn't care about that anyway).
Techno and techno-like music is described using many terms: techno, house,
acid house, garage, ambient.... the list goes on.  Now, some on this list
might wish to take issue with this and explain the differences between
all of these.  That would be welcome, since no one has yet managed to explain
this to me!  But, let's face it, the differences between any two of these
is much less than, say, the difference between Classical (like a Beethoven
symphony) and Chicago Blues.  Is that an unfair comparison?  Perhaps, but
those genres have different names, just as all the varieties of current
dance music have.  Remember, what we know about Classical or blues we
know because of the music _not_ the label applied to it.  That is, the
names in themselves tell us nothig about the music.  It is by association
and previous cubbyholing that when we hear someone say 'classical' we have
an idea of what he or she is talking about.  Our guesses might be incorrect
since language is always subject to negotiation, but I wouldn't go far as
far as the deconstructionists and hip lit-critters!

To sum up the absurdity of claims of originality for finely graded differences
in dance music (and I referred to this is my comments about spotty British
youths in popular music mags), I put to you a comment by a local public
radio station announcer a few years ago.

"This track's a little housey, a little ambient, a little techno..."

Given the relative closeness of these, who could tell even if they were
blended!?  (If anyone disagrees, by all means say so.  As I said, I want
an explanation of all these terms, and their differences.)

> the record store had cubbyholed [Nightnoise] under "New Age"

Well, they used to be on Windham Hill, pedlars of New Age music.  The comments
about dance music above might apply to New Age too.  Perhaps the different
styles are relatively less different than fans might think, so that most
people would judge a piece of music to be New Age based on features they
find similar to other music described as New Age.  (You know, 'newage' --
rhymes with sewage ;-) )  This reminds me of a local artist David Chesworth
who writes quite varied and quirky ensemble music.  He released a record
and said in all the interviews afterwards, "My music is not New Age".  Well,
Dave, you have to admit that your credibility would be greater if you hadn't
released it on a label with a name like Celestial Harmonies!  (it wasn't
that company, but the name was similar -- whoops!  I've just cubbyholed a
reocrd company!)

> Anyone who puts Eno/Cale near friggin' George
> Winston in the record store should be forced to listen to each,
> simultaneously, one in each ear, until they scream "Gaia!!" googol times!

Anyone who puts George Winston near anyone or anything....
Poor man's Keith Jarrett!

> Tell you what, man, we'll exchange tapes, if you want...just send your
> address directly to me and I'll reciprocate.

Sure.  If you want to hear a white Australian playing traditional Ghanaian
music!  (I'm not a composer!)

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:19:07 CST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         harry haecker 
Subject:      cubbyholing

>>Not a very accurate appelation in my opinion.

Sorry, y'all-- I meant "appellation"

Bill says:

>Just this week, I asked a local shop keeper what the chances would be of
>separating space music out from the new age bin into its own category.
>Basically, he doesn't want to waste the space on such a narrow category.

Man, I'm glad I'm not alone in this.  At first I thought I was going out
on a limb with my rant (rave?) Sounds like a poor excuse to me, since the
divider card takes up only a few millimeters, and I can't believe there's
enough space music artists represented in your store to warrant alphabet
cards, too.

Maybe I'm a bit loony, but how about a record store experiment: get rid
of ALL the categories and just alphabetize by artist's name...Eno next to
Elgar, Mojo Nixon next to Monteverdi.  Gosh, just think of the varied
conversations you'd potentially get between the various kinds of "long
hairs!"

David says:

>Since when did music technology ultimately determine artstic worth?
>Sorry, stupid question.  The answer is frequently, anmd I doubt very
>much whether RCA or WB, at least as corporate entities, are very
>interested in artistic worth!

Ooohh...tsssstt! BURN!!  OWWW!!! (I wish I could send real sound effects of
a record company exec being tortured with a well-lit Cuban cigar  =:0  )
Heh, heh, heh.  But I see what you're saying... and you're correct: if I
were *truly* good, I would canvas ALL labels big and small with my hissy
demos and devil-may-care if I get a contract or not!

I should be doing that just so I can say that I was turned down 50 times--
it's much more honest than bad-mouthing big record labels when I didn't
even give them a chance to scat on me.  But really, I don't want to be
wildly successful: it would automatically involve my having to deal with
100's of women wanting 48 MHz samples of my (ca 1970's) Springsteen-like
body ;^|

>I suspect that record store people, like record companies, make such
>mistakes because they don't listen to the music!

Yes, I guess with so much music floating around, larger stores (esp. in
smaller towns) can't consistently hire knowledgeable people who would know,
for example, that Eno's _Taking Tiger Mountain (By Strategy)_ shouldn't be
in the same bin with _Ambient 4- On Land._

Damn, I hate to keep picking on Professor Eno (as some people would moniker
him), but he's a great example of someone who's musically crossed over into
several genre's, including ambient (_Shutov Assembly_), pop ("The Lion
Sleeps Tonight" and "You Don't Miss Your Water"), dance ("Fractal Zoom"),
new age ("Always Returning"-- with Roger Eno), and experimental (_My Life
in the Bush of Ghosts_-- with David Byrne).

>> Music, like language, evolves
>Well, language evolves.

Uh, you don't think that music evolves?

>Actually, in this case, i think it's a case of the dance music folks
>adopting a term without thiking about it or its previous musical
>associations (and perhaps they wouldn't care about that anyway).
>Techno and techno-like music is described using many terms: techno, house,
>acid house, garage, ambient.... the list goes on.

Didn't the dance music evolve so much that people "in the know" realized that
they shouldn't put techno with trance, or gabber (what IS that, anyway?) with
disco? Like the fine gradations of Australian wine...you can't put a Bumbliwa
Chablis with an Alice Springs Burgundy, for goodness sake!   But
really, I'm ignorant of popular dance forms: I'm not one to decide when/if a
new term is really needed to describe it.

>Now, some on this list might wish to take issue with this and explain the
>differences between all of these.  That would be welcome, since no one has
>yet managed to explain this to me!

I think Joe tried last year when the subject last came up...from reading his
posts for the last three years I get the impression he's one to attend
three-day XTC raves.  :-)

>But, let's face it, the differences between any two of these
>is much less than, say, the difference between Classical (like a Beethoven
>symphony) and Chicago Blues.  Is that an unfair comparison?

...and you'd never find a record store that would separate Chicago blues
from Mississippi Delta blues from New Orleans blues from Memphis
blues...although a blues afficianado could tell them apart in an instant.
The record store would just lump them all together in the same bin.  BTW,
the New Orleans' Tower Records is really good. If anyone reading this is
planning to go to the Crescent City for Mardi Gras, check it out!

>what we know about Classical or blues we know because of the music _not_
>the label applied to it.  That is, the names in themselves tell us nothig
>about the music.  It is by association and previous cubbyholing that when
>we hear someone say 'classical' we have an idea of what he or she is
>talking about.

Right, again.  Here's a trick question: do you have to be dead to have
written "Classical" music?

>I put to you a comment by a local public radio station announcer a few years
>ago:

>"This track's a little housey, a little ambient, a little techno..."

So, when I copy that style, I'll call it "hambino"  and get my _own_  bin at
Camelot Records...

>(You know, 'newage' -- rhymes with sewage ;-) )

Is that a quote from a previous Harry-post?  A friend first told me that
back in 1985!  Wish I could easily send you a sample of how he pronounced
Whhhindham Hilll, with his eyes rolled back in his head, falling into a
hypnotic trance.

>I've just cubbyholed a reocrd company!

No crime in that!  They do it themselves all the time!

>> Anyone who puts Eno/Cale near friggin' George
>> Winston in the record store should be forced to listen to each,
>> simultaneously, one in each ear, until they scream "Gaia!!" googol times!

>Anyone who puts George Winston near anyone or anything....
>Poor man's Keith Jarrett!

Love it! Have to remember that one!  I was dragged to a Winston concert
last year in Lafayette, Louisiana.  His repetitive, jackhammer style at the
piano annoyed me greatly, to say the least.  However, his slack-key guitar
music was pretty good...keeping in mind that I don't know beans about
Hawaiian guitar music.  Maybe he's considered to be heavy-handed on that,
too.

>Sure.  If you want to hear a white Australian playing traditional Ghanaian
>music!  (I'm not a composer!)

Yeah!  I was intrigued by that ever since the "Ethnic Piracy" thread.

Later, Harry

haeckerh@nwrc.gov
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:27:41 +0100
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Jos Theelen 
Subject:      Re: this may be a dumb MIDI question...

>Is it possible to use the PC as a sample-playback box.  i.e. a note message
>comes in via MIDI, and that triggers the playing of an already-loaded .wav
>file thru my soundblaster (or za-1 spdif card).  Seems like that would be
>pretty easy to do.  Perfoming stuff like variable-volume and variable-speed
>playback, and more than 2 simultaneously would certainly be tricky.  Ignore
>that for now.

One of the possibilities is buying a wavetablecard (AWE32, Turtle
Beach MAUI or others, about $300, I think). With a wavetable you
can put small pieces of your wave-files in the wavetable. The
wavetable acts like a synthesizer. But instead of playing a string
or playing a snaredrum, it can play the waves, you put in the wave-
table. In this case you combine waves and MIDI in your setup.
You have variable-speed and volume with this, because that varies
with the MIDI-signals the wavetable-card recieves (note/velocity).

But when you buy a wavetable, be sure you can put your own waves
in them. Most wavetables have their own waves (to make it a General
MIDI synthesizer) but not all of them can handle "userwaves". And
if you want to use many own waves, you have to buy additional memory
for the wavetable.

If you want to do it only with software, I wish you much luck. It's
not so difficult to write a program that playes waves at variable-
speed or volume, but making music through MIDI is much harder, I think.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:22:22 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Art T. User" 
Subject:      Re: this may be a dumb MIDI question...

Try Voyetra's Sequencer Plus Software..its the best Midiware for The PC.

Regards and Good Luck
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:15:52 -0600
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Jon Morris 
Subject:      Re: cubbyholing
In-Reply-To:  <9601038233.AA823389560@osprey.nwrc.gov> from "harry haecker" at
              Feb 3, 96 03:19:07 pm

>
> Maybe I'm a bit loony, but how about a record store experiment: get rid
> of ALL the categories and just alphabetize by artist's name...Eno next to
> Elgar, Mojo Nixon next to Monteverdi.  Gosh, just think of the varied
> conversations you'd potentially get between the various kinds of "long
> hairs!"

Here in Austin, Texas, there is such a store.  It's called "Waterloo
Records" and it's locally owned.  You can also listen to
anything in stock.  I guess I'm a little spoiled by that.  They're "space
music" selection is ok, not great.  Anyway, as far as the big alphbetical
soup goes, I think the system works.  Plus it's much more fun to browse
all categories of music at once (their classical selection is not too
impressive, but I think a big classical inventory might make the system
a little cumbersome).  I don't think I've ever gone there and not bought
anything.

> if I
> were *truly* good, I would canvas ALL labels big and small with my hissy
> demos and devil-may-care if I get a contract or not!
>

I just sent a 4track demo to about 15 indie labels - no contract, but by
sticking with the small labels, I was able to get feedback from most of
them.  I was surprised that so many people actually listened to it.
During that process, A&R people at those labels suggested others, who
suggested others, etc...  Most of them didn't mind the hissy tape.

> I should be doing that just so I can say that I was turned down 50 times--
> it's much more honest than bad-mouthing big record labels when I didn't
> even give them a chance to scat on me.

Most of the big labels won't listen to any unsolicited tapes, regardless
of production quality.  Most major label signings happen after an artist
has been with an indie for a while, and has been able to generate some sales.

-Jon
jonmor@moontower.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Feb 1996 23:44:28 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "David W. Dial" 
Subject:      Re: Amiga and DOS format

>The question is: how do you read DOS formatted disks on that beast [Amiga]?
>Can it be both DD and HD ?  Is there a shareware/freeware I can use ?
>What site would have it ?

The Amiga format is different from the PC format.  The PC has the boot block
and the start of the directory on Track 0.  The Amiga has the boot block on
Track 0 and the directory on Track 40.  The PC double density format is 720K
and the Amiga double density format is 880K.  The PC high density format is
1.44M and the Amiga high density format is 1.76M.  However, the Amiga HD
format and drive were introduced only within a year of Commodore's
bankruptcy in April 1994 and didn't have a chance to sell many units.

With the help of appropriate software, Amigas can read double density 720K
disks.  Unfortunately, these were never very popular.  Only the most recent
Amigas made since mid-1993 have drives that can read high density disks.

The only programs I've personally used to read PC 720K disks were commercial
programs.  One is Cross DOS, which I believe is made by Central Coast
Software. Project D is a general utility program which will allow you to
read several different formats on the Amiga.

There may be public domain software available that will allow you to read
720K PC disks.  Try one of the big Amiga sites.  Unless you're lucky enough
to have one of the recent HD drives, you're out of luck on that account.

Dave Dial
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Feb 1996 10:58:21 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Martin Russ 
Subject:      Admin FAQs V1.3 (New Issue)
Comments: To: SYNTH-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU

Warning: Long Document (384 lines, 3077 words, about 6 pages)--------------

EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L Frequently Asked Questions: Administration

This document is posted approximately every four weeks. It is intended that
this document should answer many of the questions asked by newcomers to the
lists. Comments and corrections should be sent to the maintainer, Martin
Russ, at:

mruss@midi.dungeon.com

This is Issue 1.3. 4 February 1996.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Changes since issue 1.2.:
- Notes on multiple and long messages (messages, 2/3)
- Notes on message rejection (messages, 2/3)
- Moved Max, Soundcards and Music Mailing Lists topics to General FAQ

TOPIC INDEX****************************************************************
- Background
- Messages
- Subscriptions etc

BACKGROUND*****************************************************************
"What are the EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L lists for?"*****************************

EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L are for the discussion of electronic music in general:
its history, practitioners past and present, equipment, techniques, trends,
research, development, resources, you name it.

They exist as a 'post-moderated' alternative to the rec.music.makers.synth
newsgroup. (post-moderated means that the moderators monitor what is
posted, and sometimes remind posters about the 'rules': see below for the
'rules').

A digest is also available for each list. This collects all the postings
for a day into one e-mailing.

"Who are the moderators?"**************************************************

Joe McMahon and Mike Metlay have been on here for over seven years. Their
aim  is to keep the mail flowing and the illegal and blatantly out-of-line
traffic to a minimum.

Joe can be contacted at: mcmahon@clark.net

Mike can be contacted at: atomic@netcom.com

"So, can I post anything I feel like?"*************************************

Well, no. There are some RULES.

The basic thrust of EMUSIC-L is to provide a forum for the discussion of
music made by electronic means. The actual means is secondary (and more the
subject of SYNTH-L). What we are concerned with on EMUSIC-L is the music,
composing, and related topics. Therefore:

1) Ads are not permitted on EMUSIC-L. Advising someone as to whether they
are getting ripped off *if they ask the list* is permissible; otherwise,
use private mail. Requests for addresses of mail-order firms, etc. are OK.
Cutting deals on your own personal equipment is not OK. Please do it
privately, or subscribe to SYNTH-L, where you'll reach a more responsive
audience. Requests for advice as to whether a price is good or not are
marginally OK, but would probably reach a more knowledgeable audience on
SYNTH-L. Prices really aren't so much of interest unless either the entire
world (literally) should know about this great deal, or you have inside
information on a new product or upgrade.

Exception: if someone has gone through the trouble of composing, recording,
and pressing a CD or tape, submitting an article describing the process and
their experiences and mentioning that the tape or CD is available for
purchase is OK. Posting repeated ads for the CD is not. (A single mention
is marginally acceptable; a short mention in a signature file is fine.)

Here's a quick summary (it goes from 'admirable' to 'not acceptable'):

- A ONE-TIME post mentioning that you have completed a CD or tape and a
summary of experiences/etc. in making the recording is admirable.

- An article which contributes to the discussion on the list AND contains a
signature file which mentions CD/tape/album availability is acceptable.

- Repeated postings saying nothing but "My recording is available" are bad.

- Outright ads for records you did not make, hardware, software, used cars,
etc. are very bad.

2) Discussions as to the relative merits of hardware/software/etc. are
permissible, as long as the reviewers state evidence supporting their
opinions. Ad hominem attacks will not be tolerated. Arguments based solely
on personal taste are not acceptable. It is preferable to request private
mailings, which you can summarize and post back to the list. Reviews are
useful. Mutual admiration societies are not.

3) All members *will* be treated with kindness and respect. There is no
such thing as a dumb question on this list. If you can answer, answer, and
be nice about it. Otherwise, say nothing. If you've got a problem with what
someone has had to say, discuss it in a civil manner. If you can't do that,
take it to e-mail, or just forget about it.

4) EMUSIC-L is meant to be for the discussion of electronic music, in the
studio, the classroom, in performance, and on recordings, including
techniques, resources, user reviews and experiences, and speculation on
futures. Some divagations will be tolerated, as it's rather nice to have a
little humor on the list; however, the list owner(s) (Joe McMahon at the
moment) will maintain the final say as to the subject matter on the list
and will move to terminate off-topic, pointless, and (especially) rancorous
discussions.

5) Please refrain from adding to the noise level by commenting about
accidental private posts to the list or the accidental sendings of
SUBSCRIBE requests or suchlike to the list. That is the administrators'
job. If you must pour out your wounded feelings ;-), either to Joe, or to
the offender, use private mail.

6) The listowner(s) are permitted to be as arbitrary as they please. We
have only once had to take action against a member of the list for breaking
these rules, even when they hadn't been stated explicitly. We will notify
offenders via private mail and will wait for a response. But we don't have
time to play Politeness and Germaneness Monitors. We will remove users from
the list only if we must, and we always give people the benefit of the
doubt when possible. But be assured that we will act to preserve the
quality of discussion on this list.

"How did EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L start?"**************************************

Perhaps a bit of ancient history is in order here, to show where these
lists come from and why they are the way they are....

Many moons ago, when there was for all practical purposes no such thing as
the Internet (and there were certainly few or no commercial online
services), people had access to cyberspace only through a set of large but
mutually exclusive network protocols, generally provided by and germane to
their place of education or work. One of these was the USENET hierarchy of
UNIX machines at universities and laboratories and a few commercial sites;
another was BITNET, an international mail system for mainframe computers
used by scientists. Communication between the two systems was possible only
in a crude and roundabout manner, so they developed separate systems for
dealing with the same needs.

In a rough, very general sense, USENET developed the news hierarchy and
BITNET developed list servers and mailing lists; in the subfield of
electronic music, USENET had the once-quite-small newsgroup rec.music.synth
and BITNET had EMUSIC-L. The 'feel' of these groups was in concert with the
sort of people using them; rec.music.synth was more open, with college
students and commercial users, whereas EMUSIC-L tended toward academic
users. This tended to shape the level of discussion and the topics covered,
but keep in mind that early on, the overlap between the two groups was
relatively small.

Some time later, as reliable gateways between BITNET and the rest of the
growing Internet allowed for the redistribution of newsgroups as mailing
lists, SYNTH-L was launched as a gateway of rec.music.synth posts, so
BITNET users without USENET access could enjoy the news there. It was a
short, hard-learned lesson; the lack of moderation and the huge number of
news articles delivered as email (!) knocked many prospective users for a
loop. It wasn't all that long before the USENET feed was cut and the
gateways to the news hierarchy were removed, isolating SYNTH-L and
effectively removing its reason for existence.

At that point, with Joe's blessing, Mike stepped in as conceptual 'parent'
of SYNTH-L, and began to promote it as a nice middle ground between
EMUSIC-L's often rarified discussions and the daily mayhem on
rec.music.synth (now rec.music.makers.s). It was semi-moderated, so
postings stayed (by and large) polite and focussed, but long discussions of
gear, software, technical problems, and so forth that were considered a
waste of time by many EMUSIC-L readers were encouraged, and over the years
since then a de facto division between the two groups, and a healthy
relationship, has settled into place. It's true that the divisions between
topics for the two groups are occasionally blurry, but that's something
most folks simply learn to live with and get a feel for.

"Is SYNTH-L supposed to be technical discussion of synthesizers?"**********
"Does EMUSIC-L cover electronic music in general?"*************************

Very roughly, SYNTH-L is for the detailed technical talk, like gear for
sale, where to download patches, whether synth A is better than synth B
(whatever 'better' means), technical problems and solutions, and so on.
SYNTH-L is the stuff that people on EMUSIC-L don't want to have to wade
through to discuss electronic music.

Conversely, EMUSIC-L is for all the serious (and sometimes not so serious)
philosophical discussion on electronic music in its widest sense. EMUSIC-L
is the stuff that people on SYNTH-L don't want to have to wade through to
discuss gear.

In both cases, one could say that this sort of discussion has its place,
but people sometimes like to see it, and sometimes don't. All the
EMUSIC-L/SYNTH-L division purports to do is allow an approximate separation
between the snobs and the plebs. Where people take that is up to them.

It's true that there seems to be no set focus or set of aims in these
lists. That's deliberate. We are like-minded individuals looking for
someone intelligent and knowledgeable to talk to, and the topics range all
over the place, as well they should in such a forum. One shouldn't expect
any kind of focus in an environment where anything is a potential topic for
discussion.

"What's the point? It's not what I expected!"******************************

The point is that we don't want you to have unreasonable expectations of
what EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L are 'for'; they are what they are, and most
people seem content to enjoy them as they are or guide them elsewhere,
either for a while or for good...

A good starting point for finding out what the electronic music of EMUSIC-L
and SYNTH-L is all about is the EMUSIC-L World Wide Web page at:
http://sunsite.unc.edu/emusic-l.


MESSAGES*******************************************************************
'What about multiple and long posts?'**************************************

MULTIPLE POSTS / CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENTS AND OTHER LENGTHY POSTS

EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L are delivered to many different types of
mailboxes.  While many of our readers have plenty of spool file space
at their host machines and a lot of leisure time to delete unwanted
mail, there are others who must download their mail via modem, often
at low speeds while paying for connect time. For this reason, we
discourage multiple postings of the same message, and ask that list
members clear very long posts (over, say, 2000 lines) with the
Co-Moderators before sending them along. While we do not have time to
moderate every message to EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L, we have no objection
to scanning the occasional conference announcement or product profile
for suitability, and would prefer to do so rather than see our readers
suffer problems from lengthy files whose place on our lists may not be
appropriate.

One other note: keep in mind that the default behavior for the List
Server is NOT to echo a copy of your post back to you. Posting the
same announcement multiple times "just to make sure it's getting out"
is wasteful and rude. If there has been no response to your post after
three to five days, a followup message asking if the post got out,
_along with a careful restatement of the original question,_ is probably
okay. But there does exist the possibility that your question has gone
unanswered because no one on the lists has the information you need.
There's no guarantee that we can answer any question here, and we cannot
force those who do have answers to also have an interest in providing
them.

As in so many areas of netiquette, let common sense be your guide in
handling these posts. Being flamed for announcing a concert or
conference, or for asking a reasonable question, is uncalled
for. Being flamed for announcing the same event five times in an
automailer, or for asking a question no one cares about ten times in a
row in ever more strident tones, is to be expected.

"Should I respond to a message on the list?"*******************************

The whole point of this list is that we attract people who are smart enough
to make these decisions for themselves, and do. You can be one of them, if
you let yourself. Think and decide for yourself, make mistakes, correct
them, learn, move on, and enjoy the trip. Or, if you're paralyzed by fear
of doing or saying something wrong, you can choose to lurk forever.

Please also read the "So, can I post anything I feel like?" 'Rules' section
of this document before posting anything to the list.

"How do I send a message to the list?"*************************************

For EMUSIC-L, you send your posting to emusic-l@american.edu. It will be
automatically sent to all of the other subscribers. You will not receive a
copy of your own mail; LISTSERV does this to decrease mail traffic.

For SYNTH-L, you send your posting to synth-l@american.edu.

"Why did my posting get rejected?"*****************************************

Postings to the list may be rejected for a number of reasons, most of them
having to do with keeping unrelated material off the list, and keeping traffic
to a reasonable level.

If you are not subscribed to the list, you will not be able to post to it.
Thes keeps random advertisers who are not members of the list from posting
to it, and cuts down on mass crosspostings as well. If you really need to
 talk to the members of the lists, you'll have to make the commitment to
read them for at least the amount of time that it takes to get your answer.
Note that the listowners will frown on subscribing, posting, and unsubscribing
in a very short period, especially if the material posted turns out to be
unrelated to the list, or otherwise inappropriate.

Postings more than 400 lines long (about 32K of text) will be rejected as
well. This was instituted to stop things like errors resulting in massive
postings to the list, and pranksters who uuencode core dumps and send them,
attempting to overload the server and its customers. Such items will be
returned to sender.

"Where is the archive of FAQs kept?"***************************************

This is a new document (as of May 1995). As the maintainer adds new
questions this document will be revised, and some questions and answers may
be removed. You will be able to ftp previous FAQ files from the Internet.

SUBSCRIPTIONS**************************************************************
"How do I unsubscribe?"****************************************************

For EMUSIC-L, you send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text

UNSUB EMUSIC-L

as the body. No special subject is required.

For SYNTH-L, you send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text

UNSUB SYNTH-L

as the body. Again, no special subject is required.

If this does not work, you will get a message saying that no entry was
found for your ID. Please contact Joe McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET) directly.

Do *NOT* post unsubscribe messages to the list. They don't help, and simply
irritate other readers.

AOL subscribers may experience some problems with unsubscribing from the
listserv.  This may be a communications problem or an incompatibility... If
you cannot unsubscribe then please save any messages that you may receive
from the listserv and send them to Joe McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET).

"How do I subscribe?"******************************************************

To join the discussion group on a message-by-message basis, send a mail
message to listserv@american.edu with the text

SUB EMUSIC-L 

where "" is your actual first and last name (at a minimum;
LISTSERV insists on at least two blank-separated words here). Do not send
subscription requests to the list address, as they only serve to annoy the
other list members.

For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with
'SYNTH-L'.

"How do I subscribe to the daily digest?"**********************************

If you would like to get daily digests of the mail to EMUSIC-L, send the
following mail to listserv@american.edu:

SUB EMUSIC-L 
SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST

where "" should be replaced by your first and last name (at a
minimum; LISTSERV insists on at least two blank-separated words here). Note
that these two commands should be on separate lines: SUB EMUSIC-L  SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST so that the listserv will interpret them
correctly.

Do not send subscription requests to the list address, as they only serve
to annoy the otherlist members.

For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with
'SYNTH-L'.

"How do I unsubscribe from the full list and subscribe to the digest?"*****

If you would like to get daily digests of the mail to EMUSIC-L instead of
the message-by-message form, just send the  following mail to
listserv@american.edu:

SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST

You will then get one message per day, which consists of a list of topics,
followed by all the messages which have been posted in the previous 24
hours.

For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with
'SYNTH-L'.

AOL subscribers may experience some problems in changing their subscription
details via the listserv. This may be a communications problem or an
incompatibility... If you cannot change to a digest then please save any
messages that you may receive from the listserv and send them to Joe
McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET).


Contributors:**************************************************************
Mike Metlay, Joe McMahon, Ned Kartchner, Clive McFarland and others

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Martin Russ            Reviewer & Columnist for Sound On Sound Magazine (UK)
 mruss@midi.dungeon.com      Hi-Tech Music Technical Author & MIDI Consultant
 http://www.dungeon.com/~midi              Macintosh & Synthesizer Programmer
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Feb 1996 12:59:57 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Gerry Pawluk 
Subject:      Mixer to ???

i am a guitar player off from an 8 year hiatus and am amazed at the
electronic developments.  i currently have a Roland GP-100 and a BOSS DR5, a
Mackie 1202 VLZ Mixer and a 486 PC and am looking at the options for the
next step on the way to recording to a Harmon Kardon casette deck via
multi-tracking.  i am looking for equipment-compatable suggestions for the
following:

        Sequencing : Sequencer (Roland recommends their MC-500 MKII or MC-50
MKII) vs PC software

        Mastering  : 4-track recorder + recording processors (ie reverb
unit, gate units ) vs PC software


cash-flow is also a factor


thanks in advance for suggestions received.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Feb 1996 09:52:48 +0000
Reply-To:     cdurnal@staff.lib.ukans.edu
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Chet Durnal 
Organization: University of Kansas Libraries
Subject:      Two Questions
Comments: To: synth-l@american.edu

First, is it possible to convert a Mac sound file to a midi file? I
can convert midi to sound.


Second, I am looking for a midi file of the theme to the movie
Sophie's Choice. I would appreciate any assistance with these
questions.

Thanks.


Chet Durnal
University of Kansas Libraries
CDurnal@staff.lib.cc.ukans.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:27:50 EST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Peter K Schoenhoff 
Subject:      Voyetra

        Recently (within the past 4 or 5 days) someone on this list
posted a note singing the praises of Voyetra's MIDI Sequencer Plus, or
something like that.  Unfortunately I deleted the message and I don't
know who sent the original post.
        Anyway, I have been thinking of ordering their newer product,
"Digital Orchestrator Plus."  Has anyone on the list yet seen this product?
Does it work as well as the MIDI Sequencer (allegedly) does.  I have never
used any of their software before.
        Any answers appreciated.  Thank you.

--
  -Pete Schoenhoff   _\|/_   pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:12:07 +0000
Reply-To:     cdurnal@staff.lib.ukans.edu
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Chet Durnal 
Organization: University of Kansas Libraries
Subject:      Music Stand
Comments: To: synth-l@american.edu

I'm looking for a sheet music stand for my synth (Roland D10). I would like
something I could attach in some way to the back of the keyboard. The
standard  music stand for music is too shakey. Roland does not make a
stand for any of its keyboards.

I would appreciate pointers to any company that might carry such
items.


Chet Durnal
University of Kansas Libraries
CDurnal@staff.lib.cc.ukans.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:19:41 -0600
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Greg Youngdahl 
Subject:      Re: Voyetra

Hi Pete,

>         Recently (within the past 4 or 5 days) someone on this list
> posted a note singing the praises of Voyetra's MIDI Sequencer Plus, or
> something like that.

        That wasn't me, but I do have a version of Voyetra's Sequencer Plus.
It (at least the version I have) is a DOS version (if they ever made a
Windows version they never let me know about it - either directly as a
registered user, which I am, or through any kind of advertisement).

        Anyway, I found that the program was fairly stable, although I can
only comment as a hobbiest user, I never put it through anything that I would
consider heavy duty or "professional" use.  I don't ever recall it just
hanging on me (as some of the Windows sequencers I have tried have done -
which may have as much to do with Windows as with the sequencers).  I did use
it with SMPTE sync as well as its internal clocking, and found both to work
reliably.  I still use it as one of my tools, although I do prefer noodling
around with the PowerTrax Pro program in Windows when I'm just hacking around
(because it just seems easier to figure out how to do what I want to do).
Sequencer Plus does do things I can't do with PowerTrax (and vice versa), and
that is why I still find myself using it.

        One thing I do think is that the commands and modes weren't all that
intuitive to me (which might be *my* problem, but...), it seemed that some
stuff was accessed with CTRL+key combinations, others by ALT+key
combinations, and some as function keys with no real rhyme or reason that I
could determine for using one or the other.  One thing I could always do was
to bring up a HELP page with F1 and then figure out how to get to what I
wanted to do from there.  I suppose if I used the program a lot more
frequently I could remember such things.

        The thing I recall really messing me up had to do with the mouse.
It seems that whatever track the mouse was over was the "current track", and
so if you started recording it would record on that track (no clicking or
other confirmation for changing tracks).  Thus I often found myself recording
over another track that I had a valuable take on because I had slightly bumped
the mouse just before enabling record mode, which as I recall just erased the
current track to allow you to record something new (at least in some mode or
another).  I lost a few good takes that way before I decided to abandon any
mouse usage and just turn the mouse upside down whenever I used the program.
If there was a way to have recovered those tracks I don't know what it is.

>     Any answers appreciated.  Thank you.

        Well I guess it doesn't directly address Digital Orchestrator, but
it is all I've got.  Hope it helps.


--
Greg Youngdahl    Lucent Technologies    Naperville, IL
gregory.a.youngdahl@att.com