9603d

=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Mar 1996 02:20:24 GMT
Reply-To:     jetman@tunanet.com
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         jetman 
Organization: tunanet
Subject:      Re: suggested listening
Comments: To: homer!AMERICAN.EDU!EMUSIC-L@dresden.american.edu

>Critic: "Your music is terrible, it sounds like two skeletons fornicating
>on a tin roof."

I guess the main objection w/ this criticism is that skeletons actually are
not able to fornicate - for several reasons.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Mar 1996 12:05:04 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Re: Billboard and Don Quixote

>Guess I missed that one. Grants for Cassiel?

That leads into a whole selection box of other threads, but in brief: the
arts organisations and funding bodies cannot handle someone who does not
fit into their particular categories of artist or performer. (Note
similarity to current discussion.) Musicians are supposed to be musicians.
Dance companies are supposed to be run by dancers/choreographers. Musicians
are not supposed to have anything to do with the conception or creation of
dance projects. They are supposed to collaborate with choreographers -
which is fine - but there's no actual support for that kind of
collaboration, except as a ghettoised "cross media" project, and we are not
encouraged to gain any insight or grasp of the other medium.

Whenever I've talked to intelligent dancers (stop sniggering at the back)
or choreographers, they have had no problem with my expressing opinions and
being analytical of their work - indeed, Rosemary Butcher claimed to value
my opinion of her work more than that of someone in the dance discipline
itself - but the critics and arts beaurocrats can't handle it at all. They
have no vision or imagination.

Then again, if they had imagination, they wouldn't be beaurocrats.

>There is no innovation going on here! None.
>Give me something altogether new. Something never heard before. Are we
>experiencing the death knell of musical innovation?

Excuse me, but that's where I came in in the first place, and you all
started trying to give me a really hard time over it.

                           Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL
                           http://www.cassiel.com

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Mar 1996 12:05:11 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Re: Billboard and Don Quixote

>[and get away from those dancers]

Krikawa, you know me too well.

>I am quite convinced that artists do fine when they set out to do artwork,
>and do less than so when they set out to challenge commerce.

I am unsure of this, as I suggested in a previous message; my personal
experience is that my own creative process works best to constraints,
self-imposed or otherwise. Didn't Freff say something about Art versus
Communication? I suspect I disagree with him - I am into communication. To
an extent, that is a commercial concern.

On the other hand, in some respects I am spoilt: one is allowed to innovate
when creating soundtracks for dance performance, just so long as one does
not attempt to innovate away from the pigeonhole of being a musician. There
is a degree of protection and nurturing here, much as it surprises me to
say it. If I were aiming for commercial success in terms of recordings
(CD's), I would certainly agree with you; get the material right, don't try
to address the market, because the market is manifestly totally fucked.

                           Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL
                           http://www.cassiel.com

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Mar 1996 12:04:59 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Re: suggested listening

>>Critic: "Your music is terrible, it sounds like two skeletons fornicating
>>on a tin roof."
>
>I guess the main objection w/ this criticism is that skeletons actually are
>not able to fornicate - for several reasons.

An excellent example that critics don't know what they're talking about.
Film at 11.

                           Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL
                           http://www.cassiel.com

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Mar 1996 07:21:59 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Thomas M. Melville" 
Subject:      Instruments
In-Reply-To:  <960320234141_451287383@emout09.mail.aol.com>

Greetings musicians! I am new to this list. I just downloaded a program
called Track Screamer 3.

How do I go about getting instruments to compose music with? Any help
would be appreciated.

                                                Tom Melville
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:47:30 CST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         harry haecker 
Subject:      Creative Frameworks

Nick writes:

>I am, but am currently totally gobsmacked over the twists and turns that
>this thread has taken...

My wife and I have conversations like this thread, in that we'll get so
sidetracked that it may take days before the original topic is redressed
and finally laid to rest.  Neither of us usually seem to mind this,
because we learn so much during the process.

>My basic statement was that I wanted to do an album which sounded eclectic
>or unusual in some way, and could not easily be characterised.

Aha,  Re: the original pigeon/cubbyholing thread.  Do you like
systematically building a piece, _a la_ through-composing, or do you enjoy
jamming (improvising) on a track, polishing, jamming on another, polishing,
etc.?  I ask this because, to me, the most important initial decision in
composing is where in my brain the piece is coming/will come from.  Am I
mentally hearing rudiments of the piece in terms of timbre, melody, or
rhythm?  Because of my limited brain pan, I can admit to all of y'all that
this seldom happens: Schubert I ain't.  However, I am working on that facet
of composing.  I think that when one uses a particular technique as a
crutch, the final _werk_ is hackneyed.

>Firstly, I hate it when I find myself falling back on old cliches when
>composing: the boring triad chords, suspensions and neopolitans, the usual
>reverb settings, the 4/4 time signature.

Then by all means, compose a cliche...and find some way to pervert it!  With
all of that gear I see on your Web page, you _must_ be able to pull an Uncle
Ernie on it!  For example, one trick I have to vary time signature is to go
ahead and write schlock in 4/4, change the time sig to, say, 10/8 and change
the velocities to match it thusly:

2 + 3 + 3 + 2
^   -   *   -

where ^ is the primary accent (vel. ~110), - is the tertiary accent (~75),
and * is the secondary accent (~90).  All of the other velocities will be
between 1 and 74.

Then, go back to 4/4 and insert CC's that control, say, the resonance or
width of a 4-pole lopass filter every 2nd and 4th beat.

Voila! a schlocky piece now is subtly Uncle Ernie-ized (when I use the
Shaper function on the K2k it's Cousin Kevin-ized, I guess.)

>Secondly, I've always felt that creativity comes from constraint as much as
>from freedom, and what more creative constraint that one which dictates
>that the result be new and interesting?

I totally agree with you that "creativity comes from constraint as much as
from freedom," but thinking that you have to be writing something
completely new and refreshing puts way too much pressure on you, man!
Besides, it hardly constrains you at all: there's just as much music that
hasn't been heard as there is that has been...maybe more?  You end up in a
tizzy, saying to yourself (in the style of Lewis Carroll's white rabbit),
"Oh my, oh my... is it _different_ enough?" and you'll most likely not be
satisfied.  Instead, why not contrain yourself by using only one synth, or
one FX, or picking up the newspaper and writing a song inspired by the
shenanegans of Parliment.

>Sure, there is some body of technique, some notion of process, which
>characterises my work, and I can't throw out the technique (or the music in
>my head) without becoming a different person.

Very true: you'd have to get a bottle-in-front-of-you to totally change
styles.  However, I think that process is one thing that you can vary with
much success.  For instance, I'm constraining my choices on a present piece
by only using samples from a DAT tape that I recorded with 3 other
wire-heads in the echoey stairwell of a building at the local University;
the next one will only use my bowed psaltry run through my SE-70; the next
one will employ samples taken from my TG-77 and run through the K2000; the
next peice will involve the Well-Tempered Fractal.  As for styles, I may try
to be primal for one piece, and pseudo-discoey the next...or maybe I'll
combine the styles.  The resulting suite of music will hopefully not be
recognized as coming from one composer, or sounding like a Mother's Finest,
Negativland, Glenn Campbell, or Eno rip-off.

>But I can at least use something other than the usual long reverb, try some
>interesting chords, go microtonal, whatever, in the name of eclecticism.

Why not make mistakes, and repeat them strategically throughout the piece?
Oops, that's jazz... well It'll work here, too.  But having the mindset of
using "interesting chords" just for the sake of using them may bog you down
into the question, "are they interesting enough?"

>I wasn't thinking of commercial success at all, and am rather surprised
>that my message was taken in that way.

I'm not surprised: that's the way of e-mail, where your words and intents
are taken the wrong way half the time.

>Hell, right now I'm really pleased with a meeting I had with Britain's
>foremost postmodern contemporary choreographer last night about future
>work, and that's how I rate my own success (or Cassiel's), not in terms
>of pop soundalikes or airplay charts.

Congratulations for your meeting!  Note that I did say I didn't think your
music would probably sound like any pop stuff I've ever heard on Casey
Kasom's (sp.) Top 40 radio program.

High regards,

Harry Haecker (haeckerh@nwrc.gov)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Mar 1996 16:50:38 PDT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Fred MoTTe 
Subject:      Re: Instruments (screamtracker)

     I believe you talk about Screamtracker 3 (and not Track screamer :).
     If I remember well you can use 8 bits raw samples with that. Try to
     download some tunes made with it (there are a lot of them on many ftp
     sites. Try on ftp.cdrom.com ...). The music files made with
     Screamtracker 3 are named *.S3M
     Sorry, I can't help you more as I don't use this program...

     Fred.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Instruments
Author:  Electronic Music Discussion List  at INTERNET
Date:    21/03/96 05:11


Greetings musicians! I am new to this list. I just downloaded a program
called Track Screamer 3.

How do I go about getting instruments to compose music with? Any help
would be appreciated.

                                                Tom Melville
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Mar 1996 12:41:24 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Alone 
Subject:      Midi

Hello all-
        Well I have a question dealing with midi.  I have to do a research
project on  MIDI for one of my classes and the only draw back is that I have to
find a company that either makes only midi equipment and puts out an annual
report.  If anyone could help me let me know.  Thanks in advance.
        O'yeah, the company can also have a division that makes midi equipment
and still make other things.  Thanks again.

------------------------------------{ALONE}-------------------------------------
                                ttfn
                                   Jamie [jbarbour@jcvaxa.jcu.edu]
                                         [hl401@Cleveland.freenet.edu]
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:13:29 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Thomas M. Melville" 
Subject:      Re: ftp site
Comments: cc: fmote@mindscape.com

I tried that FTP site. It says Name (ftp.cdrom.com:mmi):
So I tried entering mmi. It says Password Required for mmi. So I enter a
password, then it says logon incorrect. Can you help me Fred?
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:28:53 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Thomas M. Melville" 
Subject:      Re: Midi
In-Reply-To:  <01I2LMWOL58I8Y76HF@jcvaxa.jcu.edu>

Try KORG, INC. or Roland, Inc. Do A search in webcrawler
(http://www.webcrawler.com)

On Thu, 21 Mar 1996, Alone wrote:

> Hello all-
>         Well I have a question dealing with midi.  I have to do a research
> project on  MIDI for one of my classes and the only draw back is that I have to
> find a company that either makes only midi equipment and puts out an annual
> report.  If anyone could help me let me know.  Thanks in advance.
>         O'yeah, the company can also have a division that makes midi equipment
> and still make other things.  Thanks again.
>
> ------------------------------------{ALONE}-------------------------------------
>                                 ttfn
>                                    Jamie [jbarbour@jcvaxa.jcu.edu]
>                                          [hl401@Cleveland.freenet.edu]
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Mar 1996 12:23:58 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Alan M. Bookmiller" 
Subject:      Re: Billboard, Don Quixote, and Nick

>>Guess I missed that one. Grants for Cassiel?
>
>That leads into a whole selection box of other threads, but in brief: the
>arts organisations and funding bodies cannot handle someone who does not
>fit into their particular categories of artist or performer. (Note
>similarity to current discussion.) Musicians are supposed to be musicians.
>Dance companies are supposed to be run by dancers/choreographers. Musicians
>are not supposed to have anything to do with the conception or creation of
>dance projects. They are supposed to collaborate with choreographers -
>which is fine - but there's no actual support for that kind of
>collaboration, except as a ghettoised "cross media" project, and we are not
>encouraged to gain any insight or grasp of the other medium.
----------------
Oh I see! I wonder why some funding can't be spread about in support of
purely innovative new musical categories or novel musical/dance
performining arts. Why does the backing only go to support the "known"
categories and performances? Where, or to whom, does the return on
investment go? And is the return on investment financial or is it an
intangible, such as intellectual growth -  advancing the arts if you will?
What kind of pompous asses are controlling the funds, that they deny
innovation a chance.

Question: Does the choreographer interpret the composition, or does the
composer interpret the dance? You can dance without music just as well as
you can play music without giving a thought to dance. As a musician can
improvise, so can a dancer. Forget the choreographer, and throw away the
music. Nothing preconcieved or scored. It might be interesting to bring
together a dancer and a musician in realtime. Now that's art! Just rambling
here.

Nick, for those of us who don't know, what is CASSIEL.
-----------------
>Whenever I've talked to intelligent dancers (stop sniggering at the back)
>or choreographers, they have had no problem with my expressing opinions and
>being analytical of their work - indeed, Rosemary Butcher claimed to value
>my opinion of her work more than that of someone in the dance discipline
>itself - but the critics and arts beaurocrats can't handle it at all. They
>have no vision or imagination.
>
>Then again, if they had imagination, they wouldn't be beaurocrats.
>
>>There is no innovation going on here! None.
>>Give me something altogether new. Something never heard before. Are we
>>experiencing the death knell of musical innovation?
>
>Excuse me, but that's where I came in in the first place, and you all
>started trying to give me a really hard time over it.
-------------------
I didn't give you a hard time over this, I agree with you 100%. What does
it take to start a movement for innovation?

Alan Bookmiller



tabbooks@pa.net (Alan M. Bookmiller)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Mar 1996 13:41:28 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Robert Wright 
Subject:      Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 19 Mar 1996 to 20 Mar 1996

HI THERE,  I AM ALSO A GRAD STUDENT, AND ALSO RECORDING MUSICIAN. I WOULD
RECOMMEND CHECKING OUT THE FOLLOWING....
TANGERINE DREAM--try getting hold of  some early, mid and current works(span
is around 25yr.)    early work suggestions:ZIET OR PHAEDRA
                       mid work suggestions: RUBICON OR TANGRAM
                       later work suggestions: UNDERWATER SUNLIGHT (this is a
must have)
                                                          WHITE EAGLE (you'll
like this)
                        more current suggestions: CANYON DREAMS OR TURN OF
THE TIDE
BRIAN ENO--AMBIENT 4
BRIAN ENO & DAVID BYRNE-- MY LIFE IN THE BUSH OF GHOSTS (excellent)

Anyway I will provide you with more if you want...Good Luck in all your
endeavors.
Bob Wright   rwright797@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:04:08 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Thomas M. Melville" 
Subject:      Re: Instruments (screamtracker)
In-Reply-To:  <9602218274.AA827424068@smtpgate.mindscape.com>

Thanks, Fred. Where are you writing from?

P.S> I'll try that Web site.

On Thu, 21 Mar 1996, Fred MoTTe wrote:

>      I believe you talk about Screamtracker 3 (and not Track screamer :).
>      If I remember well you can use 8 bits raw samples with that. Try to
>      download some tunes made with it (there are a lot of them on many ftp
>      sites. Try on ftp.cdrom.com ...). The music files made with
>      Screamtracker 3 are named *.S3M
>      Sorry, I can't help you more as I don't use this program...
>
>      Fred.
>
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
> Subject: Instruments
> Author:  Electronic Music Discussion List  at INTERNET
> Date:    21/03/96 05:11
>
>
> Greetings musicians! I am new to this list. I just downloaded a program
> called Track Screamer 3.
>
> How do I go about getting instruments to compose music with? Any help
> would be appreciated.
>
>                                                 Tom Melville
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Mar 1996 21:00:51 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Thomas M. Melville" 
Subject:      Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 19 Mar 1996 to 20 Mar 1996
In-Reply-To:  <960321134117_252139152@emout09.mail.aol.com>

Do you have any text files I could read to learn more on how to compose
electronic music? I am using ScreamTracker 3.2, and its all very
confusing since I'm used to making music with my Korg M1 and not my computer.

Thanks
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 05:02:29 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         OEMER 
Subject:      Re: suggested listening-agaaaaain
In-Reply-To:  "Alan M. Bookmiller" 

Sorry to bother the rest...

To whom it may concern:

Would you please sign-off me from this list?

Thks in advance,

Omer Goksel
gokselo@doruk.com.tr
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 07:15:22 +0300
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Andre Fischmann 
Organization: Lycee Polytechnique - Mauritius
Subject:      Re: Midi

Alone wrote:
>
> Hello all-
>         Well I have a question dealing with midi.  I have to do a research
> project on  MIDI for one of my classes and the only draw back is that I have to
> find a company that either makes only midi equipment and puts out an annual
> report.  If anyone could help me let me know.  Thanks in advance.
>         O'yeah, the company can also have a division that makes midi equipment
> and still make other things.  Thanks again.
>
> ------------------------------------{ALONE}-------------------------------------
>                                 ttfn
>                                    Jamie [jbarbour@jcvaxa.jcu.edu]
>                                          [hl401@Cleveland.freenet.edu]I know a lot on MIDI, and I'm using every day Midi files or softwares.
If you're using Netscape (I'm using Netscape 2 on PC/W95), I can send
you my bookmark, and you'll have all my Midi'URL: including explanations
on Midi systems, norms, proovedoores of equipments, midi files,
composers using midi...
--
Andre Fischmann & Diana Silva Santisteban - Fischmann
                fischman@netbox.com  or  fischman@bow.intnet.mu
French man & peruvian girl living in Mauritius Island
                        (tel. & fax 230-6963393)
Interests :     Music (sax, flute, keyboard, MIDI...),
                latin civilisation, Children, Atari - PC...
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 11:56:26 PDT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Fred MoTTe 
Subject:      Re[2]: Instruments (screamtracker)

Yo,

        I'm writing from France, homeland of Jean Michel Jarre (I can't stand
him :)
        By the way, I think you'd better try to find Fastracker 2 which is more
powerful than Screamtracker. FT2 can handle 16bits samples, and has a much more
powerful enveloppe and panning editing tool included. (You can find it on
ftp.cdrom.com too...)

        Catch ya.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Instruments (screamtracker)
Author:  Electronic Music Discussion List  at INTERNET
Date:    21/03/96 15:40


Thanks, Fred. Where are you writing from?

P.S> I'll try that Web site.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 11:27:23 PDT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Fred MoTTe 
Subject:      Re[2]: ftp site

     Have you tried login as anonymous ? When it asks for a name, type
     anonymous, and then enter your email address as a password. And then,
     try to find the 'music' directory (I think it's somewhere below the
     'demos' directory). You'll find there a directory dedicated to S3M
     files.

     Enjoy !



______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: ftp site
Author:  Electronic Music Discussion List  at INTERNET
Date:    21/03/96 11:48


I tried that FTP site. It says Name (ftp.cdrom.com:mmi):
So I tried entering mmi. It says Password Required for mmi. So I enter a
password, then it says logon incorrect. Can you help me Fred?
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Mar 1996 00:46:00 +0900
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         BUYO-BUYO-IGOR 
Subject:      ABOUT ON-LINE JAM

Hi, all.
Sorry for the mistake that I made last time.

Could somebody inform about the on-line JAM kind of things? Does those things
really exist a lot on the net? I can imagine that there would be a lot of trou
ble doing things REAL TIME, but if your using things like MAX program things n
ot like MIDI sequence can be exchanged......I just think so. Are there any goo
d examples for this? A good WWW site or an alternative mail system?????

THANX

BUYO-BUYO-IGOR=Masaaki Tsuji=cxl03253@niftyserve.or.jp
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 12:00:01 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Composer 11 
Subject:      Re: Midi

I am trying to compile a list of adult/contemproary radio stations. (seeking
airplay for my new A/C instrumental album "Occidental Tourist") If anyone has
information about radio stations in your area, please send me E-mail with the
particulars!

Thanks in advance,
KB Music
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 11:24:57 EST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "william.b.fox" 
Subject:      Re: Billboard, Don Quixote, and Nick

Subject:  EMUSIC-L Digest - 21 Mar 1996 to 22 Mar 1996
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:    Thu, 21 Mar 1996 12:05:04 +0000
From:    Nick Rothwell 
Subject: Re: Billboard and Don Quixote

>Guess I missed that one. Grants for Cassiel?

That leads into a whole selection box of other threads, but in brief: the
arts organisations and funding bodies cannot handle someone who does not
fit into their particular categories of artist or performer. (Note
similarity to current discussion.) Musicians are supposed to be musicians.
Dance companies are supposed to be run by dancers/choreographers. Musicians
are not supposed to have anything to do with the conception or creation of
dance projects. They are supposed to collaborate with choreographers -
which is fine - but there's no actual support for that kind of
collaboration, except as a ghettoised "cross media" project, and we are not
encouraged to gain any insight or grasp of the other medium.

Whenever I've talked to intelligent dancers (stop sniggering at the back)
or choreographers, they have had no problem with my expressing opinions and
being analytical of their work - indeed, Rosemary Butcher claimed to value
my opinion of her work more than that of someone in the dance discipline
itself - but the critics and arts beaurocrats can't handle it at all. They
have no vision or imagination.

Then again, if they had imagination, they wouldn't be beaurocrats.

>There is no innovation going on here! None.
>Give me something altogether new. Something never heard before. Are we
>experiencing the death knell of musical innovation?

Excuse me, but that's where I came in in the first place, and you all
started trying to give me a really hard time over it.

                           Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL
                           http://www.cassiel.com

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
------------------------------
Date:    Thu, 21 Mar 1996 12:23:58 -0500
From:    "Alan M. Bookmiller" 
Subject: Re: Billboard, Don Quixote, and Nick

>>Guess I missed that one. Grants for Cassiel?
>
>That leads into a whole selection box of other threads, but in brief: the
>arts organisations and funding bodies cannot handle someone who does not
>fit into their particular categories of artist or performer. (Note
>similarity to current discussion.) Musicians are supposed to be musicians.
>Dance companies are supposed to be run by dancers/choreographers. Musicians
>are not supposed to have anything to do with the conception or creation of
>dance projects. They are supposed to collaborate with choreographers -
>which is fine - but there's no actual support for that kind of
>collaboration, except as a ghettoised "cross media" project, and we are not
>encouraged to gain any insight or grasp of the other medium.
----------------
Oh I see! I wonder why some funding can't be spread about in support of
purely innovative new musical categories or novel musical/dance
performining arts. Why does the backing only go to support the "known"
categories and performances? Where, or to whom, does the return on
investment go? And is the return on investment financial or is it an
intangible, such as intellectual growth -  advancing the arts if you will?
What kind of pompous asses are controlling the funds, that they deny
innovation a chance.

Question: Does the choreographer interpret the composition, or does the
composer interpret the dance? You can dance without music just as well as
you can play music without giving a thought to dance. As a musician can
improvise, so can a dancer. Forget the choreographer, and throw away the
music. Nothing preconcieved or scored. It might be interesting to bring
together a dancer and a musician in realtime. Now that's art! Just rambling
here.

Nick, for those of us who don't know, what is CASSIEL.
-----------------
>Whenever I've talked to intelligent dancers (stop sniggering at the back)
>or choreographers, they have had no problem with my expressing opinions and
>being analytical of their work - indeed, Rosemary Butcher claimed to value
>my opinion of her work more than that of someone in the dance discipline
>itself - but the critics and arts beaurocrats can't handle it at all. They
>have no vision or imagination.
>
>Then again, if they had imagination, they wouldn't be beaurocrats.
>
>>There is no innovation going on here! None.
>>Give me something altogether new. Something never heard before. Are we
>>experiencing the death knell of musical innovation?
>
>Excuse me, but that's where I came in in the first place, and you all
>started trying to give me a really hard time over it.
-------------------
I didn't give you a hard time over this, I agree with you 100%. What does
it take to start a movement for innovation?

Alan Bookmiller
tabbooks@pa.net (Alan M. Bookmiller)
------------------------------
End of EMUSIC-L Digest - 21 Mar 1996 to 22 Mar 1996
***************************************************

Nick Rothwell:
> but the critics and arts beaurocrats can't handle it at all. They
> have no vision or imagination.

Then why is it that these sorts always seem to be in control of the
purse strings?

> Then again, if they had imagination, they wouldn't be beaurocrats.

Or maybe their creativity is of a different sort.  They control money
and artists and wield power.  I'm thinking that there may be some sort
of creativity going on there that's beyond my ken.  After all, isn't
"creative bookkeeping" the euphimism for embezzelement?  This is a far
cry from artistic imagination and creativity.

Alan Bookmiller:
> Why does the backing only go to support the "known"
> categories and performances?

The beaurocratic mentality demands that the tally sheet can only be used
by them when thumping their chests and proclaiming their support of the
arts, not by any of their detractors.  The tally sheet will contain
items showing the financial expenditures for Dance, Music, Sculpture,
Painting, and possibly Mixed Media, but not for Other, a category that
could be made to look like someone's on the take!  If Nick's vision
doesn't neatly fit into one of the existing categories, then he'll have
to convince somebody to start a new category or lie and say it's music
(with dance) or dance (with music) or collaborate with a luminary from
the world of dance who is willing to be a participant on paper but let
Nick's vision guide the project.  Or get a beaurocrat to help with the
creative grant writing.  Or?... (brainstorming ideas go here)

AB again:
> What kind of pompous asses are controlling the funds, that they deny
> innovation a chance.

They're not interested in artistic innovation.  Their interests are
more of a self serving nature.

Bill Fox        wbf@aloft.att.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 13:39:06 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Doug Sohn 
Subject:      Upcoming conference on Interactive Media and Music
In-Reply-To:  

The International Quality & Productivity Center is pleased to announce our
"Interactive Media & Music" conference, scheduled for July 30, 1996 -
August 1, 1996 in Nashville, TN.

We are now accepting proposals for conference sessions and topics for
discussion.  If you have an idea for the conference, please submit them to
Peter Yeager at pvy@pipeline.com.

Thank You!


--
Peter V. Yeager
Conference Director
International Quality & Productivity Center
150 Clove Road
Little Falls, NJ 07424
phone: 201-812-5166
fax: 201-256-7186/4370
email: pvy@pipeline.com
web: http://www.planet.net/iqpc
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 15:02:58 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Thomas M. Melville" 
Subject:      Re: Re[2]: Instruments (screamtracker)
In-Reply-To:  <9602228274.AA827497838@smtpgate.mindscape.com>

I only have a 386/25, would it be worth using or would my computer be too
slow?

On Fri, 22 Mar 1996, Fred MoTTe wrote:

> Yo,
>
>         I'm writing from France, homeland of Jean Michel Jarre (I can't stand
> him :)
>         By the way, I think you'd better try to find Fastracker 2 which is more
> powerful than Screamtracker. FT2 can handle 16bits samples, and has a much more
> powerful enveloppe and panning editing tool included. (You can find it on
> ftp.cdrom.com too...)
>
>         Catch ya.
>
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
> Subject: Re: Instruments (screamtracker)
> Author:  Electronic Music Discussion List  at INTERNET
> Date:    21/03/96 15:40
>
>
> Thanks, Fred. Where are you writing from?
>
> P.S> I'll try that Web site.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 13:14:48 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Craig Marks 
Subject:      K2000
Comments: cc: "Electronic music \"gearhead\" list" 

Well, I just got a K2000, but the learning curve is slightly steeper than I
had hoped it would be.  Does anybody know if there is a list (like this
one) dedicated to the K2000?  Thanks, Craig
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 13:14:57 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Craig Marks 
Subject:      Help!!  In search of SMF sequence
Comments: cc: "Electronic music \"gearhead\" list" 

I am looking for a sequence of the U2 song "I still haven't found what I'm
looking for."  If anyone has one that they would be willing to share, or
can tell me where to find one, I would be forever grateful.  Thank you very
much.
                                -Craig
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 17:41:15 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Alan M. Bookmiller" 
Subject:      Re: Midi

>I am trying to compile a list of adult/contemproary radio stations. (seeking
>airplay for my new A/C instrumental album "Occidental Tourist") If anyone has
>information about radio stations in your area, please send me E-mail with the
>particulars!
>
>Thanks in advance,
>KB Music

What are you hiding? Why don't you tell us who you are?

Alan Bookmiller
tabbooks@pa.net

tabbooks@pa.net (Alan M. Bookmiller)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 17:43:57 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Alan M. Bookmiller" 
Subject:      Re: Upcoming conference on Interactive Media and Music

>The International "Quality & Productivity" Center ...

Leaves me out!

Al

tabbooks@pa.net (Alan M. Bookmiller)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:03:32 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Tom Martin 
Subject:      Re: Midi

my favorite is KALX(berkeley) at (510) 642-KALX   they host a wide spectrum
of music and have the best electronic/experimental shows ive heard(ie Aurora
Borealis, Information Overload, the Avatar)

try also KUSF in San Francisco
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 23:52:29 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Thomas M. Melville" 
Subject:      Re: Help!! In search of SMF sequence
In-Reply-To:  

U2 ROCKS!!!

On Fri, 22 Mar 1996, Craig Marks wrote:

> I am looking for a sequence of the U2 song "I still haven't found what I'm
> looking for."  If anyone has one that they would be willing to share, or
> can tell me where to find one, I would be forever grateful.  Thank you very
> much.
>                                 -Craig
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 23:52:06 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Thomas M. Melville" 
Subject:      Re: K2000
In-Reply-To:  

You think the K2000 is bad? Have you seen the K2500? MOST AWESOME BOARD I
HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY ENTIRE LIFE. Makes my Korg M1 look like a Casio toy.

On Fri, 22 Mar 1996, Craig Marks wrote:

> Well, I just got a K2000, but the learning curve is slightly steeper than I
> had hoped it would be.  Does anybody know if there is a list (like this
> one) dedicated to the K2000?  Thanks, Craig
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:12:53 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Rich Arnold 
Subject:      Info on 01W upgrade chip?

Hi-

Does anyone have info on the 01W upgrade chip? I've heard rumors that it's
not available in the states yet.

Any info on features, ect.?

TIA
Rich
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Mar 1996 16:58:45 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Gerry Pawluk 
Subject:      BBE Sonic maximizer

Anyone tried one??
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 Mar 1996 12:02:27 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         David Rodger 
Subject:      Re: Creative Frameworks

Hi Harry and Nick...

> Congratulations for your meeting!  Note that I did say I didn't think your
> music would probably sound like any pop stuff I've ever heard on Casey
> Kasom's (sp.) Top 40 radio program.

Just remember that, while he is soothing the souls of sentimental baby
boomers and youngsters who somehow didn't make it into Gen-X, Casey Kasem
also provides voices for badly animated superheroes on those extended
commercials disguised as superficial morality tales we know of as cartoons!

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 Mar 1996 12:11:18 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         David Rodger 
Subject:      Re: Billboard, Don Quixote, and Nick

Hello Nick and Alan...

Alan wrote...

>Question: Does the choreographer interpret the composition, or does the
> composer interpret the dance? You can dance without music just as well as
> you can play music without giving a thought to dance. As a musician can
> improvise, so can a dancer. Forget the choreographer, and throw away the
> music. Nothing preconcieved or scored. It might be interesting to bring
> together a dancer and a musician in realtime. Now that's art! Just rambling
> here.

This reminds me of a TV program I saw many years ago now about John Cage
and Merce Cunningham. They worked separately.  The only collaborative aspects
were that the music and dance would be combined and, as a result, had to
run for a certain time.  The dance was shot on video; the music was recorded.

The two were combined in post-production (producing a TV or video only work).

Does anyone know of this or similar Cage/Cunningham collaborations.  I don't
remember the title of the program or the piece and
, to my knowledge, it's never been repeated.

I don't know where it would have been screened in the U.S. Here it was on
the AUstralian Broadcasting Corporation TV.  (ABC is like the CBC in Canada.)

BTW, with all the argument about commercial interests and the market and what
is supported/sold and what isn't, I note with some distress that certain
politicians here are talking about dissolving the ABC.  (Yes, Australia just
took a mighty leap to the right -- in the last federal election!)

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:27:17 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Gus Alden 
Subject:      Re: BBE Sonic maximizer

>Anyone tried one??

Yes.  An 862.  I'm recording midi tracks onto an analogue 4-track, and have
been able to improve upon the sound quality 100% (to my ears anyhow) with
the use of the the sonic maximizer.  What it actually does, and how it does
it, I have no idea, but I'm very happy with it's performance.

Gus Alden
aldenoob@biddeford.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Mar 1996 23:34:02 -0600
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Benjamin Leon 
Subject:      Re: BBE Sonic maximizer

Yes, I hve used one in the studio and I bought one for my rack.
It does add tons of life to synths in the studio!
If used correctly on the gig, it can do the same.
I have switched to the Behringer ultrafex.  Also a very good unit.
Ben
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 Mar 1996 02:14:11 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Rich Arnold 
Subject:      Re: BBE Sonic maximizer

Worth the $119 that I spent.  Can use it for many different apps-  From
cleaning up cassette dups from friends- Adding a little sparkle to a mix-
even strapped across a PA master out for a final touch. You won't be
disappointed. A little bit goes a long way, however, and it's easy to
overuse. You'll know because everything starts to sound way too bright and
artificial.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Mar 1996 10:23:18 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU
Subject:      Re: suggested listening

>>Mine sounds like two skeletons fornicating on a tin roof in an orange
>>blizzard on a toboggan run through a flooded coalmine in the Sahara.
>>Blindfolded.
>
>Drop the blindfold Clive, then be prepared!!!!
>
Can I keep my eyes shut?

Regards

Clive

Clive McFarland         CSIRO Australia         clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Mar 1996 10:24:08 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU
Subject:      Re[2]: suggested listening

>>Mine sounds like two skeletons fornicating on a tin roof in an orange
>>blizzard on a toboggan run through a flooded coalmine in the Sahara.
>>Blindfolded.
>>
>Heh! That's MY tune! I'm sueing your butt for copyright
>infringement!!!!
>-Peter

Just so long as you don't sue it for retentiveness...

Regards

Clive

Clive McFarland         CSIRO Australia         clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 Mar 1996 20:22:03 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Edward Plant 
Subject:      Re: BBE Sonic maximizer

I've been using the 462 for a couple of years now, and it's wonderful. The
best way to use it, IMO, is to put it between the stereo outputs of your
board and your mixdown deck/disk. Leave it disabled until you've got
everything in your mix just right and you're about to commit to tape/disk -
then punch it in, twiddle the two knobs, and be amazed. Your vocals,
acoustic guitars, flutes, etc., will jump right up front without getting any
louder.

What does it do? When used carefully (not too much!), it puts clarity and
presence into the highs and lows that you didn't think were missing until
you turned it on. How does it work? It's an all-pass filter that does phase
correction on selected spectral components. In other words, it passes all
frequencies without coloration, but it adjusts the time at which they reach
your ears so that the hard to hear stuff gets there first.

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Edward Plant, Digital Design Engineer                  
Stanford Telecommunications, Applied Technology Division
141 National Business Parkway, Suite 200, Annapolis Junction, MD 20701
                        (301)497-9900 ext 113
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Mar 1996 01:29:39 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Clay Hammons 
Subject:      REMOVE EMUSIC-L Clay Hammons

REMOVE EMUSIC-L Clay Hammons
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Mar 1996 01:30:08 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Clay Hammons 
Subject:      REMOVE EMUSIC-L

REMOVE EMUSIC-L
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 Mar 1996 23:48:26 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "David W. Dial" 
Subject:      Re: Midi

>Hello all-
>        Well I have a question dealing with midi.  I have to do a research
>project on  MIDI for one of my classes and the only draw back is that I have to
>find a company that either makes only midi equipment and puts out an annual
>report.  If anyone could help me let me know.  Thanks in advance.
>        O'yeah, the company can also have a division that makes midi equipment
>and still make other things.  Thanks again.
>
>------------------------------------{ALONE}--------------------------------
-----
>                                ttfn
>                                   Jamie [jbarbour@jcvaxa.jcu.edu]
>                                         [hl401@Cleveland.freenet.edu]
>
Not so very long ago, your inquiry would have been simple to answer because
MIDI equipment manufacturers were basically the same companies that
manufacture synthesizers (Roland, Korg, Kurzweil, etc.).  However, now that
sound cards for computers also feature MIDI interfaces, *they're* in the
mix, too (Soundblaster. Awe 32, Turtle Beach, Roland, etc.).

Both "Keyboard Magazine" and "Electronic Musician" have published MIDI
guides for several years.  You should be able to find them at better music
stores and well-stocked newsstands.  And, of course, you should be able to
order them through ads in those two magazines.

Dave Dial
Fumbling Amateur Musician and Fanatical MIDI File Collector
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Mar 1996 08:40:45 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Alan M. Bookmiller" 
Subject:      Re: Don Quixote, Nick, Harry, David

Those interested in Dance and electronic/interactive media
should visit the Troika Ranch via NetScape.
The url is:

http://www.art.net/Studios/Performance/Dance/Troika_Ranch/TroikaHome.html

Early last year, Mark Coniglio and I got into a discussion about Yamaha
equipment, and
I found out a little bit about what he was up to through that. He and Dawn
Stoppiello are
into some very creative and INNOVATIVE stuff. Here is a little from their
home page
that will give you an idea of what they do:

Troika Ranch is a performance group
based in New York City that makes
extensive use of interactive media in
their live performances. Artistic
directors Mark Coniglio and Dawn
Stoppiello are committed to extending the
notion of dance theater by developing new
works of the slash arts: dance / music /
theater / interactive media. The
performances of Troika Ranch reflect issues of contemporary American
urban life and resonate with the frenetic and chaotic rhythms of our time.

Give them a peek - very interesting.

Want to say hi to David, I saved your info on compression, very informative.
Sorry to hear about ABC. If lost, perhaps something new will spring up to
promote creative expression and the arts in general.

Nick, I really would like to know what CASSIEL represents. Is this your
music business and how does it tie into the dance arts?

Hi Harry! Check out Troika Ranch, they aren't letting tradition get in
their way!


Alan

tabbooks@pa.net (Alan M. Bookmiller)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Mar 1996 10:39:30 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Composer 11 
Subject:      Hiding Somethig?

>What are you hiding? Why don't you tell us who you are?
Greetings! I'm certainly not trying to hide!!!! My name is Kelly Bryarly, and
my analog contact information is as follows:

Kelly Bryarly
KB Music
1570 Quail Lake Loop
Colorado Springs, CO 80906
800-279-2759; local 719-579-9028
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Mar 1996 10:45:54 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Composer 11 
Subject:      Re: BBE Sonic maximizer

Greetings! Yes -I have one of their 822s.  They are very effective if you use
them subtley. They can add definition in mixes and are nice for adding some
gentle sparkle.

Best Wishes,
Kelly Bryarly
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Mar 1996 08:21:48 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Nathanael W Berry 
Subject:      Re: BBE Sonic maximizer

At 04:58 PM 3/23/96 -0800, you wrote:
>Anyone tried one??
>
        I've had a 422 for years. I don't use it that often, but it comes in
handy in a few conditions. Formost, if you are duplicating tapes, or even
copying from CD to tape, the 422 can add clarity to the copy. For example, I
have a CD that is a live recording - in one section, the croud noise sounds
like a rumble - through the 422, it is clearly clapping/stomping. If you
find that your mix is becoming cluttered and voices losing definition, the
422 can be used as a quick (minor) fix, rather than going back to sound
editting and (individual) eq tweaking. There is a low end "contour" knob, I
use this sparingly - it makes the output boomy real fast if boosting, as
usual the cut function seems more natural. The processed sound is a mix of
delayed frequency bands (lo, mid, hi) and active voltage controlled
amplifiers (controlling mid and hi frequency band relative "loudness").
Effect in/out comparison is easy (front panel buttons). Since the effect is
active, changing eq or other sound processing input to the 422 does not
always result in the expected output - in the end, let your ears be the
judge. The 422 can help bring out details if the mix is not _too_ cluttered.

Nate
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:49:25 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Tim Pasch 
Subject:      Re: REMOVE EMUSIC-L Clay Hammons
In-Reply-To:  <960325012938_255167696@emout07.mail.aol.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 1996 01:29:39 -0500 Object14@AOL.COM (Clay Hammons) wrote:

>UNSUBSCRIBE
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:17:03 EST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Eric Harnden (Ronin)" 
Subject:      k2000 list

i believe that we started hosting the k2000 list here sometime
last year. send INDEX to LISTSERV@AMERICAN.EDU and you'll
see if we've got it.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 1996 10:12:27 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         David Rodger 
Subject:      Re: Don Quixote, Nick, Harry, David

Thanks for the commendation Alan.

Now that I've had my 15 nanoseconds of fame and the back-patting is over ;-)
I would also recommend that folks visit the Troika ranch site.

Todd Winkler of Brown University has a particular interest in motion-sensing
for musical control (as I have), and delivered a paper at ICMC last year.
He played a short excerpt of a video of a Troika dance with a body suit.
The body suit has flex sensors (not unlike -- or maybe even the same as --
those found in PowerGloves) feeding an MC68HC11-based processor and radio
transmitter.  The MidiDancer system is certainly intriguing.  There are
details at the WWW site.

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 1996 09:25:32 +0900
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Osamu Fukuda 
Subject:      REMOVE EMUSIC-L

REMOVE EMUSIC-L
 $BJ!ED=$ (B
 $B9-EgBg3XBg3X1!!!?M4V9)3X8&5f<< (B
fukuda@huis.hiroshima-u.ac.jp
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 1996 00:49:52 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Quianna C. Clay" 
Subject:      Re: REMOVE EMUSIC-L

What does this mean?
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 1996 11:45:02 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Re: Billboard, Don Quixote, and Nick

>I wonder why some funding can't be spread about in support of
>purely innovative new musical categories or novel musical/dance
>performining arts.

Because it would all go Californian.

A certain degree of conservatism is good; I don't really hold with the
support of innovation for its own sake when it has nothing to say; content
is more important than style.

>Why does the backing only go to support the "known"
>categories and performances?

A lot of it is politics. There is justification for longer-term support so
that artists and practitioners can develop their art with some small degree
of security (and it is small), and pass this on to younger talent; on the
other hand, established performers often continue to get supported even if
their work is dreadful, denying other performers the foothold they need.

>Where, or to whom, does the return on
>investment go? And is the return on investment financial or is it an
>intangible, such as intellectual growth -  advancing the arts if you will?

Financial return on arts funding? Certainly not in any direct sense, but
any artist would argue that longer term returns, be they cultural or
financial, are more important. Whether you believe that depends on your
position in the political spectrum, but I think it's pretty clear that the
pro-Arts argument wins out.

>What kind of pompous asses are controlling the funds, that they deny
>innovation a chance.

I don't find them particularly pompous, just entrenched, lacking in vision
and basically not very smart.

>Question: Does the choreographer interpret the composition, or does the
>composer interpret the dance?

Depends; I've worked in both ways. The former is more usual, since
choreographers often look for music first. This is one reason why the
latter interests me.

>You can dance without music just as well as
>you can play music without giving a thought to dance.

Agreed, but you then halve the leverage you have over imagery and content.

>Forget the choreographer, and throw away the
>music. Nothing preconcieved or scored. It might be interesting to bring
>together a dancer and a musician in realtime.

Sounds a little dogmatic to me. I've done this as well; sometimes it works,
sometimes it doesn't. I rather like improvisation within larger
choreographic structures as well. You can't argue in absolute terms between
improvisation and composition (in any art form).

                           Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL
                           http://www.cassiel.com

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 1996 11:44:52 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Re: Don Quixote, Nick, Harry, David

>Those interested in Dance and electronic/interactive media
>should visit the Troika Ranch via NetScape.

I had a look over their site sometime last year; looked interesting.

>Nick, I really would like to know what CASSIEL represents. Is this your
>music business and how does it tie into the dance arts?

The web site (URL below) probably says a lot of it, but to the outside,
CASSIEL should really look rather like a dance company, but one which
exploits a notion of process and interaction when it comes to the way dance
and soundtrack are brought together to generate imagery; this is why
performances use synthesisers but not samplers, not sequencers, not
keyboards. We're into collaborations with choreographers, because of the
way differing imageries can interact. The agenda also encompasses
installation-specific work rather than theatre performances, but that
requires more infrastructure than we have at present.

On the other hand, a CASSIEL CD is in the works for the start of next year;
the dancers have finally got me down.

Oh: We don't do multimedia or mixed-media.
We aren't into technology for its own sake.

                           Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL
                           http://www.cassiel.com

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 1996 11:45:22 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Re: Creative Frameworks

>Aha,  Re: the original pigeon/cubbyholing thread.  Do you like
>systematically building a piece, _a la_ through-composing, or do you enjoy
>jamming (improvising) on a track, polishing, jamming on another, polishing,
>etc.?

I'm rather a control freak when it comes to structure (by which I mean
control structure as much as musical structure). I tend to work
systematically, but will occasionally take off the seatbelts as well,
although if I do jam something (which is tricky without a decent input
controller) I will then do a lot of work turning it into a structure
afterwards.

Part of my agenda performance-wise is to prebuild software systems on a
performance-specific basis, and then improvise using these, dependent on
the control points designed into them.

>Am I
>mentally hearing rudiments of the piece in terms of timbre, melody, or
>rhythm?

That's certainly the way I work. Music isn't created, it's discovered,
after all. The trick is to tease out the material via technique,
orchestration, timbre and so on, and (in my case) develop the control
points as well. Well, the real trick is to hear the raw stuff in the first
place.

>With
>all of that gear I see on your Web page, you _must_ be able to pull an Uncle
>Ernie on it!

(Who?)

Actually, most of that gear is gone now. My rig is really just the
UltraProteus, Wavestation A/D's and Micro-Wave, plus effects. That's plenty
powerful enough to do what I need, though.

>I totally agree with you that "creativity comes from constraint as much as
>from freedom," but thinking that you have to be writing something
>completely new and refreshing puts way too much pressure on you, man!
>Besides, it hardly constrains you at all: there's just as much music that
>hasn't been heard as there is that has been...maybe more?

Ah, but that's the freedom part, not the constraint part. I think they have
to be kept in balance, which is damn tricky.

>Instead, why not contrain yourself by using only one synth, or
>one FX, or picking up the newspaper and writing a song inspired by the
>shenanegans of Parliment.

The performance piece I'm working on at present currently uses only
malprogrammed sample ROM loops from the UltraProteus. Looks promising so
far, although it's very hit-and-miss.

>But having the mindset of
>using "interesting chords" just for the sake of using them may bog you down
>into the question, "are they interesting enough?"

Making them more interesting than the usual ones is good enough for the
present...

>Note that I did say I didn't think your
>music would probably sound like any pop stuff I've ever heard on Casey
>Kasom's (sp.) Top 40 radio program.

Who?

(Here in the UK it's wall-to-wall Oasis-versus-Blur.)

                           Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL
                           http://www.cassiel.com

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 1996 11:45:34 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Re: Billboard, Don Quixote, and Nick

>The tally sheet will contain
>items showing the financial expenditures for Dance, Music, Sculpture,
>Painting, and possibly Mixed Media,

I have it right here, and you're right...!

>If Nick's vision
>doesn't neatly fit into one of the existing categories, then he'll have
>to convince somebody to start a new category or lie and say it's music
>(with dance) or dance (with music) or collaborate with a luminary from
>the world of dance who is willing to be a participant on paper but let
>Nick's vision guide the project.

So far I've been doing the lying thing to an extent, although as I've said
I'm not into innovation for its own sake; I don't mind my stuff looking
like dance performance - for now. I've not come across many crossover arts
performances that have worked that well.

As far as vision goes, one has to form political alliances first; and
collaborating on other people's visions is fine too, as long as they're
ones you can be happy with.

>They're not interested in artistic innovation.  Their interests are
>more of a self serving nature.

I just got a "customer satisfaction" questionnaire from the Scottish Arts
Council. I'm going to enjoy filling it in.

                           Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL
                           http://www.cassiel.com

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 1996 11:45:14 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Nick Rothwell 
Subject:      Re: Billboard, Don Quixote, and Nick

>This reminds me of a TV program I saw many years ago now about John Cage
>and Merce Cunningham. They worked separately.

Cunningham has always liked to work this way (as do his students, at least
the ones I've met: I mean, rehearse/develop to Madonna and perform to Kate
Bush?). When I saw his company a year or two ago it was done this way. It's
a nice approach, but again, one has to be wary of dogma, and in the case of
Cunningham's work I'm not terribly keen on the result; but that's just my
personal taste.

                           Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL
                           http://www.cassiel.com

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 1996 07:17:11 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Alan M. Bookmiller" 
Subject:      Re: REMOVE EMUSIC-L

>What does this mean?

It means these people are trying to unsubscribe from the list but don't
know the correct procedure to do so.

Alan

tabbooks@pa.net (Alan M. Bookmiller)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 1996 08:57:06 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Paul LaVigne 
Subject:      Re: REMOVE EMUSIC-L

At 07:17 AM 3/26/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>What does this mean?
>
>It means these people are trying to unsubscribe from the list but don't
>know the correct procedure to do so.
>
>Alan
>
What's even funnier is that people over at the cakewalk list keep writing
"please unscribe". Someone sould send them the FAQ and a dictionary.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 1996 12:19:45 CST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         harry haecker 
Subject:      Creative Frameworks

>Music isn't created, it's discovered, after all. The trick is to tease
>out the material via technique, orchestration, timbre and so on, and (in
>my case) develop the control points as well. Well, the real trick is to
>hear the raw stuff in the first place.

That's the way I feel about the process, too.  For some lucky sots,
they're more like a conduit that's mostly in the "ON" position.

>>With all of that gear I see on your Web page, you _must_ be able to pull an
>>Uncle Ernie on it!

>(Who?)

Heh, heh...You're right!!  In The Who's movie version of their rock opera,
"Tommy", Uncle Ernie was the pedophillic relative who enjoyed administering
upper colonics; Cousin Kevin was the sado-masochistic one who'd put out
cigarettes on Tommy's arm. Sorry for the obscure reference to them, but I
sometimes refer to the conscious perversion of a formerly "pretty" sample,
patch, motive, or song as "pulling an Uncle Ernie on it," and thought you
might've seen the movie back in '76...it may not have made it to your neck of
the planet, though.

>My rig is really just the UltraProteus, Wavestation A/D's and Micro-Wave,
>plus effects. That's plenty powerful enough to do what I need, though.

Sounds like that would give you lots of permutations.

>I think they have to be kept in balance, which is damn tricky.

Yes, walking down that straight and narrow razor blade can be tricky and
painful.

>The performance piece I'm working on at present currently uses only
>malprogrammed sample ROM loops from the UltraProteus. Looks promising so
>far, although it's very hit-and-miss.

There you go!  I can't imagine that this piece would have too many
tired-out I-IV-V-I progressions in it    ;-)

>>Casey Kasom

>Who?

Never mind...it's too insidious and convoluted to get into.

>(Here in the UK it's wall-to-wall Oasis-versus-Blur.)

I'm ignorant of their existance, although I get the idea.

typing from my sickbed,  I remain--

Harry Haecker (haeckerh@nwrc.gov)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 Mar 1996 09:35:57 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         David Rodger 
Subject:      Re: Don Quixote, Nick, Harry, David

Hi Nick,
thanks for the account of CASSIEL.

> Oh: We don't do multimedia or mixed-media.

Don;t you ever have music _and_ dance in the same show!? ;-)

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 Mar 1996 09:39:18 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         David Rodger 
Subject:      Re: Billboard, Don Quixote, and Nick

Hi again, Nick...

> I just got a "customer satisfaction" questionnaire from the Scottish Arts
> Council. I'm going to enjoy filling it in.

Do you _ever_ want funding from them again? ;-)

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 Mar 1996 01:45:11 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Glen Tennison 
Subject:      Re: Hiding Somethig?

I have to start adding something to the group but I see most of you are way
ahead of me in this area.
I'm a Electronic Engineer that was a pretty good Drummer at one time.
I am interested in Electronic Drums.....
I have a good musical background and need to get up to speed with all these
neat Keyboards I see in the group.
Please E-mail me all sites I should check out.
Thanks Glen
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 1996 22:47:38 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Larry Deckel 
Subject:      Digest available

Is there a way to get this list in Digest form?

Please reply rtrout@earthlink.net
Thanks


**********************************************
     Troutco - an R. Trout Company

"I know I exist because things bump into me"
**********************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 1996 23:50:38 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Tony Cappellini 
Subject:      Sound Diver
Comments: To: synth-l@american.edu

Can anyone tell me if Sound Diver has been reviewed, and what issue featured
the review(s) ?

Thanks Tony
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 Mar 1996 09:02:30 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Alan M. Bookmiller" 
Subject:      Re: Don Quixote, Nick, Harry, David, and choreographers

Nick: Thanks for the overview of CASSIEL. Not having worked with
choreographers, when you say collaboration, how does the choreographer
communicate what he wants - does he describe a setting, an image, a theme?
Do you, as musician, provide a number of samples for the choreographer to
choose from, or is it done more as a work-in-progress with changes in
direction as suggested by the choreograher? Do you have a hand in the
choreography? Also, what do you mean by installation-specific? When you say
"the dancers have finally got me down," are you saying they are have worn
you down and you desire to do something on your own - to get away from
their influence (or BS)?

On other subjects:

>A certain degree of conservatism is good; I don't really hold with the
>support of innovation for its own sake when it has nothing to say; content
>is more important than style.

Innovation always has  something to say...at least it will always spawn
debate as to what it is saying if nothing else. Content is more important
than style? You sound like a choreographer here Nick. Can't style generate
content?

>A lot of it is politics. There is justification for longer-term support so
>that artists and practitioners can develop their art with some small degree
>of security (and it is small), and pass this on to younger talent; on the
>other hand, established performers often continue to get supported even if
>their work is dreadful, denying other performers the foothold they need.

I agree totally. Have you ever noticed that in some cases when an
established artist, or practitioner is given the boot, that they will come
back with something totally new and refreshing. Some can pull themselves
back up by seeing the end as a beginning point. This may be more true in
the dance arts than in the music world. I notice in music, that an
established artist may just bow out for years, then present his musical
style unchanged to a new generation - Tony Bennett did this as an example.
My fourteen year old son bought a CD and was anxious to play it for me, he
said " this is really, really cool dad." It turned out to be "Inna Gadda
Davida" (sp?) by the Iron Butterfly! Turns out these guys are selling the
hell out of this to a new generation! I didn't have the courage to tell my
son that when he played it for me that  it was probably the first time I
ever heard it straight! HA!

>Financial return on arts funding? Certainly not in any direct sense, but
>any artist would argue that longer term returns, be they cultural or
>financial, are more important. Whether you believe that depends on your
>position in the political spectrum, but I think it's pretty clear that the
>pro-Arts argument wins out.

Return on investment can turn out to be financial if a new art form arises
from the funding - and any new art form can be exploited for financial
gain. I was thinking that return on investment was more along the
"intellectual growth" of both those who create art and those who percieve
it. Fanancially, the gains are usually garnered by the established industry
- those with the funds to mass market an art form.

>I don't find them particularly pompous, just entrenched, lacking in vision
>and basically not very smart.

Ok...I see. But aren't they a little self-serving. Who do they answer to -
Is someone looking at there tally sheet saying good job, all you have
granted money are safe and doing traditional work - nothing far-out, good!

>Sounds a little dogmatic to me. I've done this as well; sometimes it works,
>sometimes it doesn't. I rather like improvisation within larger
>choreographic structures as well. You can't argue in absolute terms between
>improvisation and composition (in any art form).

How can spontaneity be determined dogmatic? I was saying, throw away that
which is dogmatic concerning the dance/music arts, improvise in real-time
and create on the fly. If after that there are new movements discovered,
either musically or through dance, then learn from it and use it - then let
that become new doctrine.

Best wishes to you Nick - you, as do many on this list, have many great
thoughts and good points. Always a learning experience!


Alan


Harry....

>(Who?)

>Heh, heh...You're right!!  In The Who's movie version of their rock opera,
>"Tommy", Uncle Ernie was the pedophillic relative who enjoyed administering
>upper colonics; Cousin Kevin was the sado-masochistic one who'd put out
>cigarettes on Tommy's arm. Sorry for the obscure reference to them, but I
>sometimes refer to the conscious perversion of a formerly "pretty" sample,
>patch, motive, or song as "pulling an Uncle Ernie on it," and thought you
>might've seen the movie back in '76...it may not have made it to your neck of
>the planet, though.

Thanks for the explanation - I was wondering about the Uncle Ernie thing as
well!


tabbooks@pa.net (Alan M. Bookmiller)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 Mar 1996 09:16:13 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Alan M. Bookmiller" 
Subject:      Re: Hiding Somethig?

>>What are you hiding? Why don't you tell us who you are?
>Greetings! I'm certainly not trying to hide!!!! My name is Kelly Bryarly, and
>my analog contact information is as follows:
>
>Kelly Bryarly
>KB Music
>1570 Quail Lake Loop
>Colorado Springs, CO 80906
>800-279-2759; local 719-579-9028


Hi Kelly,

What is your CD all about? Can you categorize the music? What equipment do
you use and how do you create your music, or get in touch with your
creative psyche?

There was an email message sometime back from a radio announcer who was
looking for music to play on a station (North-Western PA) that he worked
at. He was putting together some new programming, but I didn't save the
information but maybe somone else on the list saved it. Anyone?

You might check some of the newsgroups, sometimes they have messages from
people in broadcasting that are looking for new music to give airplay.

Good luck.

Al;an Bookmiller
tabbooks@pa,net

tabbooks@pa.net (Alan M. Bookmiller)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 Mar 1996 17:45:45 PDT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Fred MoTTe 
Subject:      Re[4]: Instruments (screamtracker)

     Well, yes, I think it's ok. It's possible that you can't reach the
     maximum mixing rate though...

     Fred.



______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Instruments (screamtracker)
Author:  Electronic Music Discussion List  at INTERNET
Date:    22/03/96 15:53


I only have a 386/25, would it be worth using or would my computer be too
slow?

On Fri, 22 Mar 1996, Fred MoTTe wrote:

> Yo,
>
>         I'm writing from France, homeland of Jean Michel Jarre (I can't stand
> him :)
>         By the way, I think you'd better try to find Fastracker 2 which is
more
> powerful than Screamtracker. FT2 can handle 16bits samples, and has a much
more
> powerful enveloppe and panning editing tool included. (You can find it on
> ftp.cdrom.com too...)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 Mar 1996 16:00:59 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Thomas M. Melville" 
Subject:      Re: Sound Diver
In-Reply-To:  <2.2.32.19960327075038.006d9f90@best.com>

What is Sound Diver?

On Tue, 26 Mar 1996, Tony Cappellini wrote:

> Can anyone tell me if Sound Diver has been reviewed, and what issue featured
> the review(s) ?
>
> Thanks Tony
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 Mar 1996 16:03:04 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         "Thomas M. Melville" 
Subject:      Re: Re[4]: Instruments (screamtracker)
In-Reply-To:  <9602278279.AA827945919@smtpgate.mindscape.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 1996, Fred MoTTe wrote:

>      Well, yes, I think it's ok. It's possible that you can't reach the
>      maximum mixing rate though...
>
>      Fred.

I found a bunch of mods and learned that I can use their instruments as
well. So I just need to figure out how to compose it on the computer. L8r!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 Mar 1996 23:49:40 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Martin Russ 
Subject:      Admin FAQs V1.3 (Last Changed 4th February 1996)
Comments: To: SYNTH-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU

Warning: Long Document (384 lines, 3077 words, about 6 pages)--------------

EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L Frequently Asked Questions: Administration

This document is posted approximately every four weeks. It is intended that
this document should answer many of the questions asked by newcomers to the
lists. Comments and corrections should be sent to the maintainer, Martin
Russ, at:

mruss@midi.dungeon.com

This is the 2nd posting of Issue 1.3, dated 4 February 1996.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Changes since issue 1.2.:
- Notes on multiple and long messages (messages, 2/3)
- Notes on message rejection (messages, 2/3)
- Moved Max, Soundcards and Music Mailing Lists topics to General FAQ

TOPIC INDEX****************************************************************
- Background
- Messages
- Subscriptions etc

BACKGROUND*****************************************************************
"What are the EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L lists for?"*****************************

EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L are for the discussion of electronic music in general:
its history, practitioners past and present, equipment, techniques, trends,
research, development, resources, you name it.

They exist as a 'post-moderated' alternative to the rec.music.makers.synth
newsgroup. (post-moderated means that the moderators monitor what is
posted, and sometimes remind posters about the 'rules': see below for the
'rules').

A digest is also available for each list. This collects all the postings
for a day into one e-mailing.

"Who are the moderators?"**************************************************

Joe McMahon and Mike Metlay have been on here for over seven years. Their
aim  is to keep the mail flowing and the illegal and blatantly out-of-line
traffic to a minimum.

Joe can be contacted at: mcmahon@clark.net

Mike can be contacted at: atomic@netcom.com

"So, can I post anything I feel like?"*************************************

Well, no. There are some RULES.

The basic thrust of EMUSIC-L is to provide a forum for the discussion of
music made by electronic means. The actual means is secondary (and more the
subject of SYNTH-L). What we are concerned with on EMUSIC-L is the music,
composing, and related topics. Therefore:

1) Ads are not permitted on EMUSIC-L. Advising someone as to whether they
are getting ripped off *if they ask the list* is permissible; otherwise,
use private mail. Requests for addresses of mail-order firms, etc. are OK.
Cutting deals on your own personal equipment is not OK. Please do it
privately, or subscribe to SYNTH-L, where you'll reach a more responsive
audience. Requests for advice as to whether a price is good or not are
marginally OK, but would probably reach a more knowledgeable audience on
SYNTH-L. Prices really aren't so much of interest unless either the entire
world (literally) should know about this great deal, or you have inside
information on a new product or upgrade.

Exception: if someone has gone through the trouble of composing, recording,
and pressing a CD or tape, submitting an article describing the process and
their experiences and mentioning that the tape or CD is available for
purchase is OK. Posting repeated ads for the CD is not. (A single mention
is marginally acceptable; a short mention in a signature file is fine.)

Here's a quick summary (it goes from 'admirable' to 'not acceptable'):

- A ONE-TIME post mentioning that you have completed a CD or tape and a
summary of experiences/etc. in making the recording is admirable.

- An article which contributes to the discussion on the list AND contains a
signature file which mentions CD/tape/album availability is acceptable.

- Repeated postings saying nothing but "My recording is available" are bad.

- Outright ads for records you did not make, hardware, software, used cars,
etc. are very bad.

2) Discussions as to the relative merits of hardware/software/etc. are
permissible, as long as the reviewers state evidence supporting their
opinions. Ad hominem attacks will not be tolerated. Arguments based solely
on personal taste are not acceptable. It is preferable to request private
mailings, which you can summarize and post back to the list. Reviews are
useful. Mutual admiration societies are not.

3) All members *will* be treated with kindness and respect. There is no
such thing as a dumb question on this list. If you can answer, answer, and
be nice about it. Otherwise, say nothing. If you've got a problem with what
someone has had to say, discuss it in a civil manner. If you can't do that,
take it to e-mail, or just forget about it.

4) EMUSIC-L is meant to be for the discussion of electronic music, in the
studio, the classroom, in performance, and on recordings, including
techniques, resources, user reviews and experiences, and speculation on
futures. Some divagations will be tolerated, as it's rather nice to have a
little humor on the list; however, the list owner(s) (Joe McMahon at the
moment) will maintain the final say as to the subject matter on the list
and will move to terminate off-topic, pointless, and (especially) rancorous
discussions.

5) Please refrain from adding to the noise level by commenting about
accidental private posts to the list or the accidental sendings of
SUBSCRIBE requests or suchlike to the list. That is the administrators'
job. If you must pour out your wounded feelings ;-), either to Joe, or to
the offender, use private mail.

6) The listowner(s) are permitted to be as arbitrary as they please. We
have only once had to take action against a member of the list for breaking
these rules, even when they hadn't been stated explicitly. We will notify
offenders via private mail and will wait for a response. But we don't have
time to play Politeness and Germaneness Monitors. We will remove users from
the list only if we must, and we always give people the benefit of the
doubt when possible. But be assured that we will act to preserve the
quality of discussion on this list.

"How did EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L start?"**************************************

Perhaps a bit of ancient history is in order here, to show where these
lists come from and why they are the way they are....

Many moons ago, when there was for all practical purposes no such thing as
the Internet (and there were certainly few or no commercial online
services), people had access to cyberspace only through a set of large but
mutually exclusive network protocols, generally provided by and germane to
their place of education or work. One of these was the USENET hierarchy of
UNIX machines at universities and laboratories and a few commercial sites;
another was BITNET, an international mail system for mainframe computers
used by scientists. Communication between the two systems was possible only
in a crude and roundabout manner, so they developed separate systems for
dealing with the same needs.

In a rough, very general sense, USENET developed the news hierarchy and
BITNET developed list servers and mailing lists; in the subfield of
electronic music, USENET had the once-quite-small newsgroup rec.music.synth
and BITNET had EMUSIC-L. The 'feel' of these groups was in concert with the
sort of people using them; rec.music.synth was more open, with college
students and commercial users, whereas EMUSIC-L tended toward academic
users. This tended to shape the level of discussion and the topics covered,
but keep in mind that early on, the overlap between the two groups was
relatively small.

Some time later, as reliable gateways between BITNET and the rest of the
growing Internet allowed for the redistribution of newsgroups as mailing
lists, SYNTH-L was launched as a gateway of rec.music.synth posts, so
BITNET users without USENET access could enjoy the news there. It was a
short, hard-learned lesson; the lack of moderation and the huge number of
news articles delivered as email (!) knocked many prospective users for a
loop. It wasn't all that long before the USENET feed was cut and the
gateways to the news hierarchy were removed, isolating SYNTH-L and
effectively removing its reason for existence.

At that point, with Joe's blessing, Mike stepped in as conceptual 'parent'
of SYNTH-L, and began to promote it as a nice middle ground between
EMUSIC-L's often rarified discussions and the daily mayhem on
rec.music.synth (now rec.music.makers.s). It was semi-moderated, so
postings stayed (by and large) polite and focussed, but long discussions of
gear, software, technical problems, and so forth that were considered a
waste of time by many EMUSIC-L readers were encouraged, and over the years
since then a de facto division between the two groups, and a healthy
relationship, has settled into place. It's true that the divisions between
topics for the two groups are occasionally blurry, but that's something
most folks simply learn to live with and get a feel for.

"Is SYNTH-L supposed to be technical discussion of synthesizers?"**********
"Does EMUSIC-L cover electronic music in general?"*************************

Very roughly, SYNTH-L is for the detailed technical talk, like gear for
sale, where to download patches, whether synth A is better than synth B
(whatever 'better' means), technical problems and solutions, and so on.
SYNTH-L is the stuff that people on EMUSIC-L don't want to have to wade
through to discuss electronic music.

Conversely, EMUSIC-L is for all the serious (and sometimes not so serious)
philosophical discussion on electronic music in its widest sense. EMUSIC-L
is the stuff that people on SYNTH-L don't want to have to wade through to
discuss gear.

In both cases, one could say that this sort of discussion has its place,
but people sometimes like to see it, and sometimes don't. All the
EMUSIC-L/SYNTH-L division purports to do is allow an approximate separation
between the snobs and the plebs. Where people take that is up to them.

It's true that there seems to be no set focus or set of aims in these
lists. That's deliberate. We are like-minded individuals looking for
someone intelligent and knowledgeable to talk to, and the topics range all
over the place, as well they should in such a forum. One shouldn't expect
any kind of focus in an environment where anything is a potential topic for
discussion.

"What's the point? It's not what I expected!"******************************

The point is that we don't want you to have unreasonable expectations of
what EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L are 'for'; they are what they are, and most
people seem content to enjoy them as they are or guide them elsewhere,
either for a while or for good...

A good starting point for finding out what the electronic music of EMUSIC-L
and SYNTH-L is all about is the EMUSIC-L World Wide Web page at:
http://sunsite.unc.edu/emusic-l.


MESSAGES*******************************************************************
'What about multiple and long posts?'**************************************

MULTIPLE POSTS / CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENTS AND OTHER LENGTHY POSTS

EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L are delivered to many different types of
mailboxes.  While many of our readers have plenty of spool file space
at their host machines and a lot of leisure time to delete unwanted
mail, there are others who must download their mail via modem, often
at low speeds while paying for connect time. For this reason, we
discourage multiple postings of the same message, and ask that list
members clear very long posts (over, say, 2000 lines) with the
Co-Moderators before sending them along. While we do not have time to
moderate every message to EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L, we have no objection
to scanning the occasional conference announcement or product profile
for suitability, and would prefer to do so rather than see our readers
suffer problems from lengthy files whose place on our lists may not be
appropriate.

One other note: keep in mind that the default behavior for the List
Server is NOT to echo a copy of your post back to you. Posting the
same announcement multiple times "just to make sure it's getting out"
is wasteful and rude. If there has been no response to your post after
three to five days, a followup message asking if the post got out,
_along with a careful restatement of the original question,_ is probably
okay. But there does exist the possibility that your question has gone
unanswered because no one on the lists has the information you need.
There's no guarantee that we can answer any question here, and we cannot
force those who do have answers to also have an interest in providing
them.

As in so many areas of netiquette, let common sense be your guide in
handling these posts. Being flamed for announcing a concert or
conference, or for asking a reasonable question, is uncalled
for. Being flamed for announcing the same event five times in an
automailer, or for asking a question no one cares about ten times in a
row in ever more strident tones, is to be expected.

"Should I respond to a message on the list?"*******************************

The whole point of this list is that we attract people who are smart enough
to make these decisions for themselves, and do. You can be one of them, if
you let yourself. Think and decide for yourself, make mistakes, correct
them, learn, move on, and enjoy the trip. Or, if you're paralyzed by fear
of doing or saying something wrong, you can choose to lurk forever.

Please also read the "So, can I post anything I feel like?" 'Rules' section
of this document before posting anything to the list.

"How do I send a message to the list?"*************************************

For EMUSIC-L, you send your posting to emusic-l@american.edu. It will be
automatically sent to all of the other subscribers. You will not receive a
copy of your own mail; LISTSERV does this to decrease mail traffic.

For SYNTH-L, you send your posting to synth-l@american.edu.

"Why did my posting get rejected?"*****************************************

Postings to the list may be rejected for a number of reasons, most of them
having to do with keeping unrelated material off the list, and keeping traffic
to a reasonable level.

If you are not subscribed to the list, you will not be able to post to it.
Thes keeps random advertisers who are not members of the list from posting
to it, and cuts down on mass crosspostings as well. If you really need to
 talk to the members of the lists, you'll have to make the commitment to
read them for at least the amount of time that it takes to get your answer.
Note that the listowners will frown on subscribing, posting, and unsubscribing
in a very short period, especially if the material posted turns out to be
unrelated to the list, or otherwise inappropriate.

Postings more than 400 lines long (about 32K of text) will be rejected as
well. This was instituted to stop things like errors resulting in massive
postings to the list, and pranksters who uuencode core dumps and send them,
attempting to overload the server and its customers. Such items will be
returned to sender.

"Where is the archive of FAQs kept?"***************************************

This is a new document (as of May 1995). As the maintainer adds new
questions this document will be revised, and some questions and answers may
be removed. You will be able to ftp previous FAQ files from the Internet.

SUBSCRIPTIONS**************************************************************
"How do I unsubscribe?"****************************************************

For EMUSIC-L, you send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text

UNSUB EMUSIC-L

as the body. No special subject is required.

For SYNTH-L, you send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text

UNSUB SYNTH-L

as the body. Again, no special subject is required.

If this does not work, you will get a message saying that no entry was
found for your ID. Please contact Joe McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET) directly.

Do *NOT* post unsubscribe messages to the list. They don't help, and simply
irritate other readers.

AOL subscribers may experience some problems with unsubscribing from the
listserv.  This may be a communications problem or an incompatibility... If
you cannot unsubscribe then please save any messages that you may receive
from the listserv and send them to Joe McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET).

"How do I subscribe?"******************************************************

To join the discussion group on a message-by-message basis, send a mail
message to listserv@american.edu with the text

SUB EMUSIC-L 

where "" is your actual first and last name (at a minimum;
LISTSERV insists on at least two blank-separated words here). Do not send
subscription requests to the list address, as they only serve to annoy the
other list members.

For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with
'SYNTH-L'.

"How do I subscribe to the daily digest?"**********************************

If you would like to get daily digests of the mail to EMUSIC-L, send the
following mail to listserv@american.edu:

SUB EMUSIC-L 
SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST

where "" should be replaced by your first and last name (at a
minimum; LISTSERV insists on at least two blank-separated words here). Note
that these two commands should be on separate lines: SUB EMUSIC-L  SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST so that the listserv will interpret them
correctly.

Do not send subscription requests to the list address, as they only serve
to annoy the otherlist members.

For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with
'SYNTH-L'.

"How do I unsubscribe from the full list and subscribe to the digest?"*****

If you would like to get daily digests of the mail to EMUSIC-L instead of
the message-by-message form, just send the  following mail to
listserv@american.edu:

SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST

You will then get one message per day, which consists of a list of topics,
followed by all the messages which have been posted in the previous 24
hours.

For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with
'SYNTH-L'.

AOL subscribers may experience some problems in changing their subscription
details via the listserv. This may be a communications problem or an
incompatibility... If you cannot change to a digest then please save any
messages that you may receive from the listserv and send them to Joe
McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET).


Contributors:**************************************************************
Mike Metlay, Joe McMahon, Ned Kartchner, Clive McFarland and others

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Martin Russ            Reviewer & Columnist for Sound On Sound Magazine (UK)
 mruss@midi.dungeon.com      Hi-Tech Music Technical Author & MIDI Consultant
 http://www.dungeon.com/~midi              Macintosh & Synthesizer Programmer
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 28 Mar 1996 04:35:35 GMT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List 
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List 
From:         Frank Graves 
Subject:      SEQUENCING AND THEORY FAQ'S ?

I'm looking for any available Music Theory and Sequencing FAQ's that are
available.

Thanks,

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Frank C. Graves                      C++ Software Development     |
|  fgraves@worldnet.att.net             Tenneco Energy, Houston, TX  |
|  713-353-8994 (H)                     713-757-4433 (W)             |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+